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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 9:26:30 GMT
It is similar to the fighting cancer bollocks and the necessary logical corollary that those that die , didn't fight hard enough . I wouldn't put it quite like that, but I have seen first hand how fighting cancer mentally can help extend life. I can only say that it made me a believer in the power of willpower. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 9:50:51 GMT
It is similar to the fighting cancer bollocks and the necessary logical corollary that those that die , didn't fight hard enough . I wouldn't put it quite like that, but I have seen first hand how fighting cancer mentally can help extend life. I can only say that it made me a believer in the power of willpower. Sorry Martin I am not having it . This is an emotive subject and you may have witnessed a correlation between a persons will to live and longer than anticipated life expectancy or even recovery , but there is no evidence to suggest mental strength can delay or cure the inevitable outcome of a persons particular cancer .
All cancers are not the same and all outcomes are not the same , but that outcome whatever it may be is not influenced by a persons determination to beat it .
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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 10:04:09 GMT
My experience is extremely granular, I'll admit. However, I lived through my wife being given six months to live with incurable cervical cancer, plus or minus a couple of months. She lived for another eight years. She fought it mentally with a strength, determination and willpower that I could only admire. The consultants were nonplussed. She could have given in and it would have been all over pretty quickly. As it is, she got to see our son grow to 8 years of age, a gift for her, and for him.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 10:06:13 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jul 31, 2014 10:09:59 GMT
Me too, surgery and chemo certainly saved my life.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 10:27:06 GMT
As I said , this is an emotive subject and I was aware of your situation Martin and I have no desire to denigrate or distil individual experiences .
My point is , the we humans are funny creatures and we desire explanations and in some circumstances were explanations are not to be found we put in place "magical narratives" . Many of these narratives are dysfunctional for reasons I have outlined .
That does not mean people who contract these horrible diseases are not capable of great stoicism , strength ,determination and humanity . It simply means I don't think cancer gives at toss about your mental attitude .
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Post by pre65 on Jul 31, 2014 11:29:17 GMT
All cancers are not the same and all outcomes are not the same , but that outcome whatever it may be is not influenced by a persons determination to beat it .
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 31, 2014 12:13:35 GMT
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 12:38:24 GMT
yep , that's solved the issue .
There is a parallel with this mind over disease issue and it the cable debate .
Medicine aims to be a science , it looks for causal explanations , prediction and repetition . There is absolutely no credible causal explanation on how a positive mental attitude overcomes an organic biological disease . Why doesn't it work without medical intervention and treatment , why does it not work for some , painkillers work for everyone you know .
It remains at the level of mumbo jumbo .
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Post by pre65 on Jul 31, 2014 12:47:28 GMT
Being truly positive about everything is actually quite difficult, but very worthwhile.
If (or when) you ever attain a truly positive outlook you may want to reconsider the "mumbo jumbo" remark.
Surely the placebo effect is proof that the mind can control physical symptoms ?
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 13:03:25 GMT
pre for some reason you insist on trying to guess "who I am" from what I write . I aint worthwhile .
Do you know of any valid placebo trails effective against organic biological illness . If placebo's worked the nhs would save a fortune .
I merely aim to free to individual from the tyranny of collective bollocks .
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Post by pre65 on Jul 31, 2014 13:12:11 GMT
pre for some reason you insist on trying to guess "who I am" from what I write . I aint worthwhile . Do you know of any valid placebo trails effective against organic biological illness . If placebo's worked the nhs would save a fortune . I merely aim to free to individual from the tyranny of collective bollocks .
So, if we believe something strongly enough, it can happen.
Belief is personal to the individual, if you do not believe then that's fine by me, but NEVER EVER tell someone who is suffering that belief is futile. You don't (and never will) have that right. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 13:23:24 GMT
pre for some reason you insist on trying to guess "who I am" from what I write . I aint worthwhile . Do you know of any valid placebo trails effective against organic biological illness . If placebo's worked the nhs would save a fortune . I merely aim to free to individual from the tyranny of collective bollocks .
So, if we believe something strongly enough, it can happen.
Belief is personal to the individual, if you do not believe then that's fine by me, but NEVER EVER tell someone who is suffering that belief is futile. You don't (and never will) have that right.Alas you be wrong . My freedom of speech is enshrined in law .
If I think your beliefs are stupid , I am able to say so . Indeed I consider it my civic duty to shout it from the rooftops . As I said , I aim to free the individual from tyranny of collective bollocks . I do however hold one caveat , it is quite possible I am wrong and I actively encourage people to prove that I am .
I know what a placebo is but thanks for first paragraph description .
Your beliefs on the minds control over organic biological diseases is groundless, but I look forward to the day someone cures their compound tibia fracture or blocked aortic artery with the power of their mind while sat at home .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 13:32:15 GMT
If I remember correctly, there is good evdidence that placebos work even if the person knows it's a placebo. Bigger pills are better than smaller, injections are even better still. I can't find the link at the moment, but there's quite a bit of research out there.
Quite a lot of what GPs do is provide placebos, they are fairly powerless to treat many conditions with anything but a placebo and a caring attitude.
Placebos do have a measurable medicinal effect on certain problems (such as pain for example).
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 13:34:46 GMT
If I remember correctly, there is good evdidence that placebos work even if the person knows it's a placebo. Bigger pills are better than smaller, injections are even better still. I can't find the link at the moment, but there's quite a bit of research out there. Quite a lot of what GPs do is provide placebos, they are fairly powerless to treat many conditions with anything but a placebo and a caring attitude. Placebos do have a measurable medicinal effect on certain problems (such as pain for example). Eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It would be unethical and negligent for a gp to prescribe a placebo . I am sorry but all the post is just incorrect .
Edit - actually , what you say about pain is a bit correct . Pain is a complex phenomena and the brain is involved . I was discussing this only the other day with a professor of pain management from Edinburgh . But of course pain is not an organic biological entity .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 13:40:45 GMT
If I remember correctly, there is good evdidence that placebos work even if the person knows it's a placebo. Bigger pills are better than smaller, injections are even better still. I can't find the link at the moment, but there's quite a bit of research out there. Quite a lot of what GPs do is provide placebos, they are fairly powerless to treat many conditions with anything but a placebo and a caring attitude. Placebos do have a measurable medicinal effect on certain problems (such as pain for example). Eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It would be unethical and negligent for a gp to prescribe a placebo . I am sorry but all the post is just incorrect .
Do you know any GPs? Is this just wishful thinking or do you think there are laws against GPs prescribing placebos (there aren't as far as I know but I could be wrong)? Prescribing an antibiotic for a viral infection is effectively prescribing a placebo. Several anti-depression meds are just placebos AFAIK, especially in low doses. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 13:44:03 GMT
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 31, 2014 13:46:28 GMT
I am med neg lawyer .
you are wrong - you are seeking to impose your views on those medications upon the gp's . A gp who knowing prescribed a medicine s/he knew would not work would be guilty of professional misconduct .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 13:49:29 GMT
I am med neg lawyer . you are wrong - you are seeking to impose your views on those medications upon the gp's . A gp who knowing prescribed a medicine s/he knew would not work would be guilty of professional misconduct . Looks like 97% of GPs are unprofessional then  |
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Post by pre65 on Jul 31, 2014 13:55:26 GMT
A gp who knowing prescribed a medicine s/he knew would not work would be guilty of professional misconduct .
They may not contain any active ingredients but so what if they do the job ? |
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