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Post by brettj on Mar 8, 2024 20:20:56 GMT
I have trouble sometimes NOT buying things.
Case in point.
A set of Isoacoustics Gaia III for sale here.
Had been looking periodically for something under my equipment cabinet to replace the RDC cones.
Have someone to go halves in the Gaia III, so have a set of four for £100 which isn't too bad.
Another part at point's end
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Post by brettj on Mar 8, 2024 20:25:11 GMT
What to do with the RDC cones now...
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Post by MartinT on Mar 8, 2024 21:40:59 GMT
What to do with the RDC cones now... Under lesser components. They're still good. |
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Post by NigelB on Mar 8, 2024 22:20:15 GMT
This deserves its own thread but I post it here since it is almost to good to be true. Not sure if I want to spread this everywhere to be honest... I have now ripped out my expensive ethernet cables, LAN isolators and Switch with power supply and replaced them with this, for very cheap: WiFi Extender (should be V4, which doesn´t require any modifications) and Throttle Ethernet Cable as suggested and measured, in the same German forum. (use the translate function in your browser) The throttle cable goes directly into the streamer. In addition i bought the Ian Canada Power Supply which i plan to use for the WiFi Extender, as suggested in the same forum. I haven´t yet done the needed soldering though... It all makes perfect sense to me to keep it simple with a very good WiFi extender, with silent power, that can output the cleanest possible ethernet signal, decoupled from ethernet. The throttle cable is basically just a very effective way to shield that clean signal into the streamer, that is proven more efficient then very expensive ethernet cables. Their conclusion, on this forum, is that adding additional "stuff" only makes it worse when using this combination. I can´t confirm that in any way. All i can say is that I am very happy with the result, to say the least.
I agree simplicity has its attractions; an over-complex set of tweaks can end up with one working against the other.
For our info, what are the "expensive ethernet cables, LAN isolators and Switch with power supply" which you have replaced with the cable? Do you like how it sounds by comparison? How would you describe the differences?
Where is the evidence to support the first word in "proven more efficient than expensive ethernet cables"? Or is the word "efficient" rather than "effective" important here ie it is much cheaper even if less effective?
You have to be really careful applying ferrites to ethernet cables as they carry much higher frequencies than SPDIF digital cables due to the nature of the ethernet packets/frames being transmitted. The same ferrites one might use on an SPDIF cable to mitigate high frequency EMI (usually called RFI) could actually target the very frequencies we want to transmit on an ethernet cable... Unless the recipe is very specific indeed about which type of ferrites to use, the sound might change but not necessarily for the better. Proceed with caution then. I know someone who experimented along these lines but abandoned the experimentation as he didn't like what he was hearing, with a variety of ferrites.
A wifi extender to eliminate any noise up to that point plus something to kill the noise which the extender itself produces can work well, but that something is more likely to be a switch or filter or whatever than a homebrew ferritey cable thing.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 8, 2024 22:54:35 GMT
You have to be really careful applying ferrites to ethernet cables as they carry much higher frequencies than SPDIF digital cables due to the nature of the ethernet packets/frames being transmitted. I agree that what you should be targeting is to take noise out of the signal, but not to round the leading/trailing edges of that signal by over-vigorous filtering. Such rounding is going to affect threshold triggering and lead to more jitter, the very thing you are trying to avoid. |
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Mar 9, 2024 11:01:14 GMT
TheFlash, the ethernet cables i have now ripped out is the Audioquest Vodka and the Wireworld Starlight 8. The switch was a simple Netgear gs105e with Ipower X. I also had an LAN iSilencer in my WiFi extender which is also gone now.
I linked to a thread on another site/forum where they measure these things and experiment with different setups. I started buying their suggested WiFi repeater/extender, to replace my existing one. Since it was such a great upgrade i then naturally wanted to try the ferrit core thing that they raved about. It turned out to be much better sounding, just better in all aspects i associate with a DAC that now performs better, like they are reporting on that site.
Note that they report improvements even when replacing the most expensive ethernet cables from audioquest (Diamond), for example. They also have very expensive streamers and high end components in general so my feeling is that this is improvements worthy really nice setups.
But again, i am not going to pretend that i have done any extensive A/B testing or know any technicalities! I have just followed someone else advice and it made me very happy, and saved me some money.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Mar 9, 2024 13:15:20 GMT
TheFlash, I can also see that you talk about the virtues of switches in general, in your posts. At the same time you seem to be associated with(?) a company that happen the sell ethernet noise reduction gear, at least you have a link in your signature and you use many of their products. I think this is valuable information for everyone on this forum.
I agree that these audiophile noise reduction gears can be very good but this could potentially be something even better, i am thinking.
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Fro
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 342
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Post by Fro on Mar 9, 2024 19:25:19 GMT
Sold my Paul Pang Switch and will be getting this combo - Ediscreation Firebird LPS powering both the Silent Switch OCXO Extreme + Fiber Box. Will keep you posted once it arrives and is installed in my streaming chain....   |
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Post by NigelB on Mar 11, 2024 12:09:51 GMT
TheFlash, I can also see that you talk about the virtues of switches in general, in your posts. At the same time you seem to be associated with(?) a company that happen the sell ethernet noise reduction gear, at least you have a link in your signature and you use many of their products. I think this is valuable information for everyone on this forum. I agree that these audiophile noise reduction gears can be very good but this could potentially be something even better, i am thinking. Most of my posts are about how/where to install a switch properly if you actually want to maximise the improvement it can make; my signature has been the same since I joined, nothing to hide here! My posts have no commercial agenda - I never promote my own products - I simply tell people how best to achieve what they want to achieve.
For absolute transparency, I own the company, am its lead designer and assemble, test, pack and ship everything myself. My business partner does the CAD work and these days most of the copper lining of the cases.
Your experiences are obviously your experiences, so I can't question them. I have always found LAN filters to be worse than a direct ethernet connection and nowhere near the performance of even a Netgear switch, so its removal from your system leading to an improvement is no surprise here. I raised the issue about ferrites as I wouldn't want others to blindly follow without say investigating the effective range of frequencies the specific ferrites suppress as they might be disappointed.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Mar 11, 2024 13:53:36 GMT
Thanks for the transparency, much appreciated.
My advice is just for people to try it, or at least read what they are concluding on that site (check the forum part).
If you want to know how good it is then it is probably better that you ask them, on that site, who has more and better references than i have.
I just decided to trust that they are correct. I personally can´t judge if this is the best thing since sliced bread or not, since i haven´t tested "the best" alternatives.
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Post by brettj on Mar 12, 2024 11:13:25 GMT
Would a Sonore UltraRendu be an upgrade on my Project Stream Box S2 Ultra?
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 12, 2024 11:48:47 GMT
I love my UltraRendu - the sound quality and superb software are top notch. But your Pro-ject looks like a decent machine so I suspect a side by side demo is the only way you will know for sure.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 12, 2024 13:23:34 GMT
I've heard both in my system. It would be a close call, depending on what PSU you use with it.
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Post by brettj on Mar 12, 2024 18:45:16 GMT
Thanks chaps.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Mar 12, 2024 23:38:43 GMT
This deserves its own thread but I post it here since it is almost to good to be true. Not sure if I want to spread this everywhere to be honest... I have now ripped out my expensive ethernet cables, LAN isolators and Switch with power supply and replaced them with this, for very cheap: WiFi Extender (should be V4, which doesn´t require any modifications) and Throttle Ethernet Cable as suggested and measured, in the same German forum. (use the translate function in your browser) The throttle cable goes directly into the streamer. In addition i bought the Ian Canada Power Supply which i plan to use for the WiFi Extender, as suggested in the same forum. I haven´t yet done the needed soldering though... It all makes perfect sense to me to keep it simple with a very good WiFi extender, with silent power, that can output the cleanest possible ethernet signal, decoupled from ethernet. The throttle cable is basically just a very effective way to shield that clean signal into the streamer, that is proven more efficient then very expensive ethernet cables. Their conclusion, on this forum, is that adding additional "stuff" only makes it worse when using this combination. I can´t confirm that in any way. All i can say is that I am very happy with the result, to say the least. Regarding the simpel DIY ferrit core throttle I linked to last week, seen above. First i want to say that my explanation that the ferrit core throttle concept i basically an effictive shielding, seem to be wrong. It actually seems that it does actually work as a filter, which is why it is claimed to perform better than the very best ethernet cables. Then i also saw this picture, on the same german forum, showing the inside of the well tested Networks Accoustics filters, that is fairly expensive. It basically looks like they have packaged the ferrit core throttle concept inside a box, if this picture is to be trusted?  |
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Post by brettj on Mar 13, 2024 20:57:16 GMT
A bit of a blip.
IsoAcoustics Gaia III weight recommendations are 32kg.
My system and cabinet are more than that.
Duh.
Hope four are easy to move on.
So will pivot to a set of Stack Audio Auva 50 under my cabinet.
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Post by brettj on Mar 13, 2024 21:03:07 GMT
At some stage I'll get a headphone amplifier.
At the end of my system, with an old pair of Grado RS1.
No hurry, but a nice thing to have later in the evening.
Have been offered a Nuforce HA-200 for £100.
Sitting on my hands...
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 14, 2024 11:02:13 GMT
A bit of a blip. IsoAcoustics Gaia III weight recommendations are 32kg. My system and cabinet are more than that. Duh. Hope four are easy to move on. They seem to sell very quickly on this side of the pond Brett! |
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Post by NigelB on Mar 15, 2024 20:38:14 GMT
This deserves its own thread but I post it here since it is almost to good to be true. Not sure if I want to spread this everywhere to be honest... I have now ripped out my expensive ethernet cables, LAN isolators and Switch with power supply and replaced them with this, for very cheap: WiFi Extender (should be V4, which doesn´t require any modifications) and Throttle Ethernet Cable as suggested and measured, in the same German forum. (use the translate function in your browser) The throttle cable goes directly into the streamer. In addition i bought the Ian Canada Power Supply which i plan to use for the WiFi Extender, as suggested in the same forum. I haven´t yet done the needed soldering though... It all makes perfect sense to me to keep it simple with a very good WiFi extender, with silent power, that can output the cleanest possible ethernet signal, decoupled from ethernet. The throttle cable is basically just a very effective way to shield that clean signal into the streamer, that is proven more efficient then very expensive ethernet cables. Their conclusion, on this forum, is that adding additional "stuff" only makes it worse when using this combination. I can´t confirm that in any way. All i can say is that I am very happy with the result, to say the least. Regarding the simpel DIY ferrit core throttle I linked to last week, seen above. First i want to say that my explanation that the ferrit core throttle concept i basically an effictive shielding, seem to be wrong. It actually seems that it does actually work as a filter, which is why it is claimed to perform better than the very best ethernet cables. Then i also saw this picture, on the same german forum, showing the inside of the well tested Networks Accoustics filters, that is fairly expensive. It basically looks like they have packaged the ferrit core throttle concept inside a box, if this picture is to be trusted? A friend took one apart and it looked similar.
Yes, ferrites do not shield, they attenuate. The "trick" with ferrites is not to assume that all ferrites are equal; a browse of the website of any decent electronics component supplier will show a range of ferrites attenuating different frequencies and we need to ensure we're using the appropriate ferrites if we're going to experiment rationally rather than take a gamble. The ferrites one might use on an SPDIF cable are most likely very different from those we might use on an ethernet cable.
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Post by NigelB on Mar 15, 2024 20:42:32 GMT
A bit of a blip. IsoAcoustics Gaia III weight recommendations are 32kg. My system and cabinet are more than that. Duh. Hope four are easy to move on. So will pivot to a set of Stack Audio Auva 50 under my cabinet. As Jules says, they do sell well but you'll take a hit. Is it too late to return them? UK distance selling rules give you 14 days in which to return, not sure if this is relevant. A full refund beats a sell-on any day!
I moved from ATC passive SCM40 to active SCM40A and my Gaia II underwhelmed even though they were just over the upper end of the recommended range; the Gaia II are amazing so it's worth the investment if you need to make it.
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