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Post by julesd68 on Jul 20, 2014 18:49:06 GMT
Could somebody explain to me what the benefits are of upgrading the PSU to one's TT?
I have been advised that the size of the transformer makes the difference - is this the most important component? There are some expensive PSU's on the market, so it would be good to know what one is paying for and what spec to look for.
I have been interested in trying an alternative PSU for my Source TT for some time. I have a very basic after-market PSU - the original power supplies are rare as hens' teeth. I know that any replacement PSU would need to offer somewhere between 24-30V DC.
Whilst this might be a technical question, I would be grateful if your explanation isn't too tricky for a tech simpleton such as myself to understand … I thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 18:59:11 GMT
These use the Papst Flying saucer Motor. I think they were dual transformer 24V power supplies. I would personally upgrade the motor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 19:08:15 GMT
Often a misleading answer is given here. Some people appear to believe the bigger (and more expensive) the better. However I would suggest an oversize supply is beneficial but by how much is optimum I don't know and frankly people making and selling these won't always give you the whole truth. With The Source or any AC driven TT I would have thought that mains isolation and speed control is more important than just transformer size. I assume the Source uses similar or same motor as Linn? So would think one of the aftermarket LP12 supplies should work.
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Post by pre65 on Jul 20, 2014 19:10:15 GMT
I'd try searching ebay, and Google for "24v linear regulated power supply" and see what you find. 
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2014 19:11:49 GMT
These use the Papst Flying saucer Motor. I think they were dual transformer 24V power supplies. I would personally upgrade the motor. Andre. I thought these were similar to Linn/Ariston. I f Papst are these similar to the Mitchell ones? |
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 20, 2014 20:40:12 GMT
The motor is a Papst GS 38-09. In the tech spec it says 'DC hall effect (on board electronics permit use of AC)' thesourceturntable.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Papst%20GS%2038-09%20Data%20Sheet%20with%20Motor%20board%20circuit%20diagramI found this info on Vinyl Engine - < The source PSU is as follows --- in the last iteration, two toroidal transformers wired in parallel UK was 240v in 24v out feeding a good sized rectifier and then smoothed with a large capacitor. The output Voltage was 36V DC and is then connected to the deck via the din connector. The motor is indeed Pabst and it carries onboard a stiff regulator and control circuit with a tweaker to allow speed adjustment. If you are electronically minded you can build this easily. It may seem odd but the twin transformer setup has a startling effect on the sound quality as does the over voltage input. > I was since advised that 36V could potentially put a bit of a strain on the motor board components and recommended 24-30V max. I'm not looking to change the motor, just interested to experiment with the PSU if someone can give me a definitive tech spec on what to look for from after-market models. |
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 20, 2014 20:48:28 GMT
Google "Armaggeddon Power Supply". You'll read at Stereophile why Naim chose to use basically a 430 V/A issolating transformer in preference to a synthesised Valhalla-type option. You'll also find on the Linn forum how some owners actually prefer the Valhalla supply (performing as it should and not nearing the end of it's life) to later options.
Not quite as straight forward as one might think.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 20, 2014 20:55:41 GMT
There's a thread on AOS if you search. If I remember right later versions of your deck had a bit of a more beefier supply using twin transformers, I think.
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 20, 2014 21:21:44 GMT
There's a thread on AOS if you search. If I remember right later versions of your deck had a bit of a more beefier supply using twin transformers, I think. ha that's funny, I'd actually forgotten that I'd asked a similar question myself on AOS back in 2011! I was left pretty confused by that which is probably why I'm asking the question now, to see if I can get any more clarity … |
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 20, 2014 21:46:36 GMT
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 20, 2014 21:52:28 GMT
Yep, that's what I linked to earlier ...
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Post by Andrei on Jul 20, 2014 23:04:29 GMT
There are threads on AOS - in particular on the Paul Hynes stuff.
To answer your question: The prime benefit of a quality power supply is to help keep the speed of the turntable stable. Other benefits are to keep the turntable speed as close as possible to 33 and 45, and to reduce electrical noise. My personal experience is as follows: I took out the power supply and regulator from my Technics SL1200 Mk5 and replaced them with the Longdog Audiophile Power supply from MCRU. The power supply I have put externally and the regulator I have placed inside the turntable (there is space to do that). The improvement is sound quality was immediate and noticeable. It is quite an expensive upgrade and was on a par with the tomearm upgrade, and using the Isonoe Feet, both of which were cheaper to do. It was not as significant as upgrading my cartridge (Benz Ace to Benz Wood) or of upgrading my phono stage (ifi iphono to Fozgagte signature).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 3:42:52 GMT
These use the Papst Flying saucer Motor. I think they were dual transformer 24V power supplies. I would personally upgrade the motor. Andre. I thought these were similar to Linn/Ariston. I f Papst are these similar to the Mitchell ones? Na & not your common garden Airpax/Premotec.. Decks like the Ariston 'RD11 Superior' used a early flying saucer Papst motor |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 21, 2014 7:44:29 GMT
Could somebody explain to me what the benefits are of upgrading the PSU to one's TT? It rather depends on the turntable design, and what the power supply is supplying. If it's a motor control board with regulation, then a beefier power supply can provide tighter speed regulation, lower flutter and good sound quality gains. If it's a DC motor, then an enhanced power supply may or may not make a difference at all. |
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Post by DaveC on Jul 21, 2014 8:01:49 GMT
Did you ask the same question in the HiFi World magazine ?
If so I already answered that in this case no. On reflection I would put a bigger Panasonic FC capacitor on the output of the bridge rectifier and change all the pots.
Dave
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 21, 2014 8:43:18 GMT
Did you ask the same question in the HiFi World magazine ? If so I already answered that in this case no. On reflection I would put a bigger Panasonic FC capacitor on the output of the bridge rectifier and change all the pots. Dave No I can't remember the last time I bought a hifi magazine! Thanks for your suggestions though Dave, that sounds interesting ... |
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Post by DaveC on Jul 21, 2014 8:53:23 GMT
OK, it sounded familiar !
What I suggested will make an improvement, an external PSU probably not. So for a £5 spend you win !
Dave
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 21, 2014 8:56:52 GMT
classic is usually very semantically precise but perhaps on this occasion he meant obfuscation as opposed to lying as TT psu is another one of those contentious hifi subjects were you can spend hundreds and thousands for what appears to be tens of pounds of material .
And their benefits are usually described in fanciful terms .
I have had many TT power supplies , but now I run my modified PT anniversary of a £70 bench regualated linear dc power supply and a maxon dc motor I understand is the same one used in the linn radikal . The motor in my humble opinion is awesome and the power supply is reliable and consistent , I have experienced no dc speed variation over time . |
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 21, 2014 9:01:53 GMT
OK, it sounded familiar ! What I suggested will make an improvement, an external PSU probably not. So for a £5 spend you win ! Dave Cheap is good, thanks Dave ... How long would doing the FC cap and pots take? I'd need to find somebody I trust to do the work for me - |
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 21, 2014 9:08:58 GMT
classic is usually very semantically precise but perhaps on this occasion he meant obfuscation as opposed to lying as TT psu is another one of those contentious hifi subjects were you can spend hundreds and thousands for what appears to be tens of pounds of material .
And their benefits are usually described in fanciful terms .
I have had many TT power supplies , but now I run my modified PT anniversary of a £70 bench regualated linear dc power supply and a maxon dc motor I understand is the same one used in the linn radikal . The motor in my humble opinion is awesome and the power supply is reliable and consistent , I have experienced no dc speed variation over time . I take your first point and this is why I am approaching the subject with caution and am not in a rush to shell out 600 quid or so for something that may or may not produce benefits ... But nobody here is advising me in gushing terms to go and do just that. BTW I have never had any issues with the Papst motor, it has always performed well. |
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