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Post by Tim on Jun 17, 2018 18:30:57 GMT
I'm not entirely sure I understand your point, but no worries.
My point was that I have virtually no interest or knowledge about UFOs, apart from the Roswell incident. That would possibly change if I ever saw one, but I haven't, so it's not something I think about.
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Post by Slinger on Jun 17, 2018 18:43:52 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2018 19:38:29 GMT
Anyone who still believes the moon landings were staged after watching that video must be sub-intelligent. Think it through and tell me how that evidence is not proof?
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Post by Tim on Jun 17, 2018 19:45:00 GMT
Good article Paul, sums it up nicely really. I'm certainly open to any tangible evidence - but so far I agree with that tag line 'It’s never aliens. Until, perhaps, it is'. I thought this quote by Jason Wright was particularly pertinent "You don’t want to immediately cry ‘aliens’ like a boy crying wolf every time you see something and don’t understand it."So until someone punches me in the face and we all know about it (which we would), I have little interest as there's nothing to see . . . until there is  |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2018 20:01:31 GMT
Indeed, good scientists know that not everything can be explained. Look at dark matter, for instance.
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Post by Slinger on Jun 17, 2018 20:04:17 GMT
UFOs? I once saw something in the sky I couldn't explain therefore it was an unidentified flying object as far as I and the other people who saw it were/are concerned. I firmly believe that there's "something" out there, I just don't know what it is, and all the conjecture in the world is not going to answer the question satisfactorily. But as Fermi's Paradox asks, assuming we believe that "they" exist - "Where are they?" Because we really should have met them by now.
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Post by Tim on Jun 17, 2018 20:11:12 GMT
Going off at a tangent, have you ever seen this Martin?
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Post by rfan8312 on Jun 17, 2018 20:38:38 GMT
UFOs? I once saw something in the sky I couldn't explain therefore it was an unidentified flying object as far as I and the other people who saw it were/are concerned. I firmly believe that there's "something" out there, I just don't know what it is, and all the conjecture in the world is not going to answer the question satisfactorily. But as Fermi's Paradox asks, assuming we believe that "they" exist - "Where are they?" Because we really should have met them by now. Is it possible that they don't exist, but will exist? I wonder if it is possible that as humans colonize other planets and then physically evolve through adaptation to the physical reality (gravity, oxygen levels, interaction with flaura/fauna) of each new planet that we colonize, that over time you will have almost entirely different races inhabiting different planets, races that all came from the same starting point, humanity. |
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Post by Slinger on Jun 17, 2018 21:18:59 GMT
Alternatively, UFOs are actually time machines, piloted by future versions of ourselves. Because they already know that there is currently no proof that they exist they do not allow us to prove that they exist by avoiding any overt, verifiable, contact. They will know when its time to make contact because, for them, it will already have happened...or not. I do so love a nice paradox.  |
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Post by rfan8312 on Jun 17, 2018 21:29:49 GMT
UFOs? I once saw something in the sky I couldn't explain therefore it was an unidentified flying object as far as I and the other people who saw it were/are concerned. I firmly believe that there's "something" out there, I just don't know what it is, and all the conjecture in the world is not going to answer the question satisfactorily. But as Fermi's Paradox asks, assuming we believe that "they" exist - "Where are they?" Because we really should have met them by now. Furthermore, are we flattering ourselves in assuming that they'd even want to meet us, considering the kind of civilization we have been in the last 100 years? Holocaust, World Wars, Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Dresden, corrupt leaders, war for resources, humanities inability to distinguish our own proverbial ass from our from proverbial elbow. If aliens could contact us, but also had other options of races to mingle with, maybe ours hasnt looked like their first choice recent years. |
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jun 17, 2018 23:19:46 GMT
The average person might view individuals with a belief in UFOs as a tad deranged. But what they fail to grasp is the mountain of evidence from "expert witnesses" including police, army, navy, airforce, commercial pilots, test pilots, high-ranking navel intelligence and others.
One such individual is Bob Oechsler. His particular expertise is in robotic systems. He did work for NASA on the design of the robotic arm used in the space shuttle to deploy payloads. Not someone you'd readily put in the "nutter" category. Here are some of his observations. Audio's not the best:
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Post by MartinT on Jun 18, 2018 5:50:57 GMT
Going off at a tangent, have you ever seen this Martin? Fantastic, thank you for that, Tim. Do you know where those recovered engines are being exhibited? I've been to the space museums at Houston and Seattle but I wonder if they will stay in Florida? |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 18, 2018 6:00:36 GMT
Furthermore, are we flattering ourselves in assuming that they'd even want to meet us, considering the kind of civilization we have been in the last 100 years? Holocaust, World Wars, Hiroshima & Nagasaki, Dresden, corrupt leaders, war for resources, humanities inability to distinguish our own proverbial ass from our from proverbial elbow. If aliens could contact us, but also had other options of races to mingle with, maybe ours hasnt looked like their first choice recent years. The wavefront of our radio broadcasts during WW2 especially is out there, an irretrievable testament to our unpleasant warfaring nature. They haven't gone very far in galactic terms yet, but I can imagine two possible outcomes should an alien civilisation decode them: leave us well alone in isolation or cleanse the universe of us as being too dangerous to survive. If we take the first radio broadcasts to have started around 1920, they will have reached out to 98 light years so far. Since the minimum diameter of our galaxy, the Milky Way, is 100,000 light years it's going to be a long time yet before aliens are likely to pick up our broadcasts. Maybe we will have mended our ways by then? |
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 18, 2018 7:22:29 GMT
Alternatively, UFOs are actually time machines, piloted by future versions of ourselves. Possibly, but in that case they are so rude that maybe we don't want to meet them. I mean, Stephen Hawking threw a party for them and the buggers did a no-show. How rude is that?  |
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 18, 2018 7:30:20 GMT
You have to allow for the time factor in assessing chances of meeting aliens as well.
Assume a techno-civilisation lasts on the average for a few tens of thousands of years before it meets its demise for some reason.
The Galaxy is 10 billion years old. The chances of us coinciding with a nearby and detectable civilisation is pretty remote in that regard alone.
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Post by Tim on Jun 18, 2018 9:50:55 GMT
The average person might view individuals with a belief in UFOs as a tad deranged. But what they fail to grasp is the mountain of evidence from "expert witnesses" including police, army, navy, airforce, commercial pilots, test pilots, high-ranking navel intelligence and others. Fair point and I would never dispute that people see things they don't understand or recognise - happens everyday. Being police, army, navy, airforce, commercial pilots, test pilots however does not make them any more credible as a witness, in fact that list comprises some of the most stressful jobs there are, many of whom work long hours under pressure. Additionally, being an 'expert witness' does not include just being in that category, you need to be trained, qualified and experienced in your field of 'expertise' to be recognised as an expert witness. I'm not sure there is a formally recognised qualification for UFO spotting? If there is then OK, if not, that statement is incorrect.
And what so called 'evidence' do they have? More often than not just an eyewitness account and sometimes some of the most dodgy film footage imaginable. Light anomalies don't convince me or most people that we have been visited. That unfortunately would never be considered credible evidence, it matters not how high the mountain is, if it's mostly rubbish.
Each to their own though, but I'm happy to retain my blinkered view in what can be proven. I wouldn't necessarily call a UFO enthusiast deranged though, just enthusiastically misguided.
Interestingly with all the probes being sent out, the countless missions in space, the ISS in constant orbit since 1998 and all the associated tracking of anything in earth orbit likely to be of danger to it, SETI, all the earth's observatories, radio telescopes and the many millions spent actively seeking other life, yet nothing has been found or seen by people who actually are experts in their field.
I'll go with the science as opposed to the hobbyists. Although I quite like Slingers time machine theory and that it's actually us visiting us 
Anyhoots, you work away, but this has gone way off the original topic now and I have some music to listen to.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 18, 2018 12:37:19 GMT
I'll go with the science as opposed to the hobbyists. Me too. |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 18, 2018 18:10:47 GMT
Returning to those fantastic F1 engines on the Saturn V that took the men to their moon landings, each F1 engine produced over 2 million Nm of thrust, amounting to well over 10 million Nm for the entire first stage. That's an awesome achievement for a man-made machine.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jun 18, 2018 19:01:47 GMT
Tim. Tim. The older I get, (61) the less I feel I know about anything. I'm not an out-and-out zealous believer - or an out-and-out skeptic; I just have an open mind.
The list offered are regarded as such simply because off their training/job and their use of logic and reason. A pilot could judge the speed of the "phenomena" he is following more accurately than anyone on the ground watching it.
Evidence? Haven't you watched the link? Try it. What have you got to lose? The "phenomena" he talks about lasted over a protracted period of time and was witnessed by numerous individuals including 4 TV crews from around the world. Read anything by Timothy Good. I can't see you wanting to wade through YouTube and separating the idiotic from the creditable. If you're willing to have an open mind, I'd say there's plenty of "evidence", if you have an open mind.
Here's Buzz Aldrin. y'know, him that went to the moon. You can dismiss all but the first 33 seconds, if you want (it's only 3.52 in total):
Expert witness?
I would imagine you regard Lee Harvey Oswald as being responsible for the JFK assassination - the greatest of all conspiracies! No doubt you don't think there is creditable "evidence" to the contrary.
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Post by Chris on Jun 18, 2018 19:11:03 GMT
Worth reading about the Rendelsham Forest incident as well.
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