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Post by MartinT on May 11, 2018 23:12:00 GMT
Saint-Saëns Symphony No. 3 "Organ"
I first heard this work performed at the Albert Hall sometime in the early 1980s. Of course, much earlier than that I knew the famous tune played out by the organ in the fourth movement. However, this symphony is much more than just 'that' famous bit. From the very beginning, it's compellingly written and very beguiling in its French style. I cannot think of another composer who wrote in a similar style to Camille Saint-Saens. When the organ comes in during the second movement, it plays soft and deep and lures you into how wonderful a symphony orchestra accompanied by organ can sound. You need big speakers for this one and you will be rewarded with a big luscious experience, especially during the thunderous entry of the organ in the fourth movement. It's exquisitely wonderful.
My all-time favourite recording of the 3rd is conducted by Enrique Batiz but sadly it's not available on Spotify, so here is another performance by the LPO, this one conducted by Yannick Nezet-Seguin.
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Post by julesd68 on May 11, 2018 23:17:43 GMT
Really looking forward to this, not heard it for a long time and don't know this recording! MikeMusic - the bass organ notes should give your speakers a good work out ...  |
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Post by MartinT on May 12, 2018 0:12:37 GMT
I can also recommend this recording conducted by Edo de Waart, it's long been a favourite CD of mine and features the great Ruffatti organ in Davies Symphony Hall played by the famous organist Jean Guillou. Lovely Philips recording captures the full majesty of the performance.  |
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Post by julesd68 on May 12, 2018 10:31:15 GMT
Surely the 5 star rating should be org-asmic??
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Post by MartinT on May 12, 2018 11:09:21 GMT
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Post by Slinger on May 12, 2018 12:26:55 GMT
I have this my Maazel, Dutoit, and a rather good Naxos disc where its played by the CSR Symphony Orchestra (Bratislava) conducted by Stephen Gunzenhauser, with Imrich Szabo at the organ. Yes, I know, neither have I. It's Naxos though, so you can more or less guarantee that the quality is, if not stunning, better than average. As we're marking the music, rather than the performance, this gets an automatic 5 from me. |
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Post by julesd68 on May 12, 2018 13:00:24 GMT
I'm going to mark it for the music and performance, otherwise I don't need to listen to it! |
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Post by Slinger on May 12, 2018 13:23:05 GMT
I've got a 4CD set of Saint-Saëns complete organ works. I may just start playing that instead.  |
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Post by julesd68 on May 12, 2018 13:26:30 GMT
ooooooohhhhhh! Are any of them as compelling as this work? By the way chaps, I have this version - famous not just for being rather spiffing, but recording the organ and orchestra on different sides of the world! :format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2485865-1316609501.jpeg.jpg) |
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Post by Slinger on May 12, 2018 13:29:45 GMT
...recording the organ and orchestra on different sides of the world! They must have needed very long microphone leads. They really would have needed XLR leads instead of having them just for show. |
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Post by MartinT on May 12, 2018 15:28:28 GMT
I compared my two favourite CDs of this work, which was a most enjoyable task. The de Waart is played nicely and recorded a little more distantly than the Batiz. Despite the Batiz not getting universal praise, I find his interpretation and tempi near-on perfect. The organ in the de Waart is clearly of galactic power and the pedal notes in the second movement are gut-wrenching. The Batiz has a well recorded organ, too, but potency and definition are somewhat lacking in comparison. The strings in the de Waart sound a bit glassy. The brass section in the Batiz sound fantastic whereas they are mostly lost in action in the de Waart. Overall, I give it to the Batiz. A superb performance and recording, snap it up if you ever come across it.  |
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Post by julesd68 on May 12, 2018 16:40:58 GMT
What a shame the Batiz isn't available to listen to online ...
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Post by John on May 13, 2018 4:29:40 GMT
I not listened to this for a long time and enjoyed it
At the moment a 4
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Post by jandl100 on May 13, 2018 7:27:44 GMT
One of my favourite recordings is with Geoffrey Simon conducting. He plays it in a 'straighter', more symphonic manner to my ears, it's a different kind of approach. A good music buddy of mine is a great fan of the music, but prefers a more emotional approach to me in all of his listening, and he dismissed this one out of hand as boring! Oi loiks it, though.  (As a considerable bonus, the album includes a quite rare recording of the SS Requiem). |
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Post by MikeMusic on May 13, 2018 11:18:04 GMT
Really looking forward to this, not heard it for a long time and don't know this recording! MikeMusic - the bass organ notes should give your speakers a good work out ... Bit baffled Heard almost no organ What did I do wrong ? |
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Post by MartinT on May 13, 2018 11:24:35 GMT
Listened to the wrong piece? Try the de Waart Spotify I posted. There's plenty of organ in the 2nd and 4th movements.
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Post by julesd68 on May 13, 2018 15:23:49 GMT
My god we are spoilt for choice for recordings here! I'll be listening on headphones so won't quite get the full effect of the 12" Tannoys but should still sound good on the little SMSL ... |
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Post by julesd68 on May 14, 2018 9:51:35 GMT
Thanks to Martin for choosing - not listened in such a long time and it’s a really fine work. I kicked off with De Waart - really enjoyed this, huge depth to the organ, good dramatic tension and a very lush Poco Adagio. The brass seemed to be cutting through fine to me in the final movement! I then decided to compare various Maestoso and Allegros. Nezet-Seguin and James O’Donnell - recording doesn’t seem to be in the same league and as a whole I’m missing the huge sense of scale that De Waart has. The orchestra doesn’t feel as cohesive and polished to my ears. The RFH organ not really making a big enough statement for me - maybe MikeMusic listened to this one and wondered where the organ was! The Geoffrey Simon which Jerry posted has a tempo which feels a tad slow initially but maybe this is a clever ploy to allow the climax to build strongly and he still manages to create plenty of atmosphere. Not quite for me but I can see why Jerry likes this. Then it’s a 1987 James Levine, Berlin Phil and Simon Preston recording. Lovely clear organ sound, great tone. Berlin Phil in great form, super refined strings. Levine has got this just right, and a great tempo for me; very, very fine and I highly recommend a listen - Rated as one of the most renowned recordings by wiki, the Charles Munch 1959 recording with Berj Zamkochian on organ doesn’t really do it for me at all - this does sound dated now, with a strange lack of cohesion to some of the playing and the brass sounds a bit off to me in places with several intonation issues. I then went for Ormandy and E Power Bigg’s 1961 recording which is much better than the Munch; it offers a huge organ sound and Ormandy has a much tighter rein on the orchestra. Lots of drive and energy. Very nice. As I contrast I then went to Michael Stern and Kansas City Orchestra from 2015. The playing is perfectly serviceable but this doesn’t really trouble the scorers, as the recording (on my computer system) sounds rather muffled and compressed which is a shame. Then we have Eschenbach with organist Olivier Latry from 2007. Huge, huge sound from organ and orchestra here; the tempo however is a little slow for me and does rather spoil the effect, I would like them to gee up a bit! Interestingly enough an inaugural performance on the Fred J. Cooper Memorial Organ. Here’s the blurb - The Fred J. Cooper Memorial Organ, Dobson organ Op. 76, ranks as the largest mechanical-action concert hall organ in the United States. With its nearly 7,000 pipes, four blowers, 300 levels of memory, 111 stops, pipe sizes ranging from about the size of a drinking straw up to two feet square by 32 feet high, this is truly the King of Instruments! I think my two favourites here, which I would love to compare in more detail on the big system are the Levine and De Waart.And I need to hear the Batiz! |
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Post by MartinT on May 14, 2018 11:53:49 GMT
Great summaries, Jules. I forgot to mention that the organ blowers on the de Waart and Batiz CDs are very evident, a kind of subsonic rumble. Organ-wise, the de Waart is king. Orchestrally, Batiz is magnificent. I shall try the Levine recording as soon as I can.
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Post by MikeMusic on May 15, 2018 10:11:57 GMT
Listened to the wrong piece? Try the de Waart Spotify I posted. There's plenty of organ in the 2nd and 4th movements. Spotty direct takes me to organ music <listening> Link from TAS takes me somewhere else |
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