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Post by mattspl on Mar 24, 2024 18:49:44 GMT
That would be great Tony. I’m actually from Derbyshire originally, but I’m here 25 years now.
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Post by mattspl on Mar 26, 2024 22:46:02 GMT
A few more bits arrived today, so I made a new cable to attach to the Ground box, going with Tony's advice of multiple cables to one Ground box, rather than multiple Ground boxes. As I've only one binding post on the Ground box, I had to Improvise. My DSP has XLR in's and outs, but none are free to allow a ground cable, so I got a couple of 5 pin DIN connectors as the DSP has 3 MIDI sockets on the back which share a common ground with the XLR's. I made up this cable so that the DIN connector goes to the DSP. The RCA goes to the Dac's Analogue out and the XLR goes to the Dac's AES input. All terminated into a single Gold plated Copper, solder-less spade. The XLR is also Solder-less.  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr The Sablon Audio LAN 2020 arrived today too.  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 27, 2024 5:25:17 GMT
going with Tony's advice of multiple cables to one Ground box, rather than multiple Ground boxes. You're not connecting to multiple components though, are you? |
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Post by mattspl on Mar 27, 2024 7:00:19 GMT
going with Tony's advice of multiple cables to one Ground box, rather than multiple Ground boxes. You're not connecting to multiple components though, are you? Yes, I’m trying this connected to my Dac and my DSP(which is effectively my preamp). They are technically already connected through XLR cables. I believe this is how Tony’s RTZ boxes are wired into a system, taking cables from various different components to provide star grounding to keep the potential difference the same. |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 27, 2024 8:08:25 GMT
I have found multiple components to one grounding box is a big no-no as you are providing a short to the ground paths.
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Post by mattspl on Mar 27, 2024 10:15:13 GMT
I have found multiple components to one grounding box is a big no-no as you are providing a short to the ground paths. That’s what I heard too Martin, but Tony explained a few posts ago on page 9 about minimising the potential difference by bringing all grounds to one box, rather than several smaller boxes. He did say that you should NOT mix signal and power grounds though in the same box. Hopefully Tony will clarify this incase i read it incorrectly. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 27, 2024 10:25:35 GMT
I have found multiple components to one grounding box is a big no-no as you are providing a short to the ground paths. That’s what I heard too Martin, but Tony explained a few posts ago on page 9 about minimising the potential difference by bringing all grounds to one box, rather than several smaller boxes. He did say that you should mix signal and power grounds though in the same box. Hopefully Tony will clarify this incase i read it incorrectly. Think that is *not* mix signal and power grounds though in the same box |
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Post by mattspl on Mar 27, 2024 10:41:21 GMT
That’s what I heard too Martin, but Tony explained a few posts ago on page 9 about minimising the potential difference by bringing all grounds to one box, rather than several smaller boxes. He did say that you should mix signal and power grounds though in the same box. Hopefully Tony will clarify this incase i read it incorrectly. Think that is *not* mix signal and power grounds though in the same box Thanks Mike. I just edited the post. |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 27, 2024 10:50:51 GMT
I have found multiple components to one grounding box is a big no-no as you are providing a short to the ground paths. Going to utterly disagree with that Martin and I'm happy to demonstrate that to anyone
The power ground? you mean earth PE which is NOT ground as in 0Vdc which is classifed as the reference plane voltage 0Vdc
Easy way to work this out, using a DVM and having the power lead removed from the component for at least 5 mins, set to continuity and place on the centre EARTH iec pin and use the other probe to touch the rca outer shells and pin 3 of the XLR's if you have a connections then that piece of equipment is earth referenced to ground.
Different approach required in that case.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 27, 2024 10:59:07 GMT
Not power ground, ground plane in all cases.
My ears told me that tying any two components together with a common grounding box was a fail in sound quality.
That's why I have strictly one grounding box per component.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 27, 2024 11:21:18 GMT
Well all can say Martin is this, you are the only one sir!
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Post by mattspl on Mar 27, 2024 13:31:53 GMT
The general consensus that I gathered, particularly from the DIY ground box thread on Head-fi, was that people seemed to put a box per component, with some people having 10 or 20 ground boxes in their systems, that’s why I thought I’d ask the question as I don’t have room for multiple boxes for a start.
It’s good to hear everyone’s thoughts and experiences about these ground boxes anyway, that way I can learn as I go along.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 27, 2024 14:37:30 GMT
The general consensus that I gathered, particularly from the DIY ground box thread on Head-fi, was that people seemed to put a box per component That's what works for me. Plus a whole load more on mains earth duty. |
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Post by mattspl on Mar 28, 2024 19:18:20 GMT
I made up another cable last night with one RCA and one DIN connector terminated into a spade. I managed to squeeze the extra spade onto the Ground box binding post.
I now have nearly all the spare inputs and outputs on my Dac and DSP connected to the Ground box.
What I’m noticing now is a reduction in a slight ground loop hum from the speakers that I‘d put down to noise caused by the DSP, so that’s a bonus. Certain tracks that create a good 3D soundstage are almost like surround sound now, so I’m certainly going in the right direction.
Next experiment is some RFI shielding fabric and tape to wrap around all the Grounding cables. If this helps things further, I will cover them in sleeving again and apply more heat shrink to make them look nice again.
I will also attempt to wrap the whole Ground box in the RFI fabric to see if this helps at all.
I also have a piece of solid copper bar that’s about 12mm x 200mm and weighs 360g. I’m thinking about putting 3 more binding posts into one of the sides of the Ground box and drilling the copper bar and sliding it over the 3 binding posts and linking it with the existing copper in the Ground box. I’m afraid to add to this box though due to the potential mess it will cause with all the current mix.
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Post by mattspl on Mar 31, 2024 16:12:05 GMT
Yesterday I made a second ground box, this time with 3 binding posts connected together and much more copper used inside. The box is larger than the last one and I could do with more magnetite to fill it up, but there's enough in it to cover everything. I haven't tested it yet as I wanted to put RFI shielding on all the Grounding cables first and see what effect that has on things. I made this box out of a larger box I ordered as I decided it was too big, so I cut it and glued it back together, then cut the lid too. Its a bit more rough and ready than the first box.  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr So today, I used RFI cloth and tape to cover all the cables and then used different size sleeves to cover them. If I like the result, I might put heat shrink on them to finish them off. One thing I did notice, that I'd mentioned(disappeared) after adding multiple cables to the single Ground box, was the Ground loop hum. It came back as soon as I removed the first cable from the Dac's RCA analogue output. I now have all the cables connected again to the Ground box and all is quiet again.  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr  Untitled by Matt Hoyle, on Flickr |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 31, 2024 16:41:28 GMT
One thing I did notice, that I'd mentioned(disappeared) after adding multiple cables to the single Ground box, was the Ground loop hum. Ground loop hum is just the obvious manifestation of your multiple connections to different components. Sorry, Matt, but that hurts my brain. All my experiments showed that this kind of multiple component tying together of ground planes is counter-productive. I'll shut up, now. |
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Post by mattspl on Mar 31, 2024 17:11:53 GMT
One thing I did notice, that I'd mentioned(disappeared) after adding multiple cables to the single Ground box, was the Ground loop hum. Ground loop hum is just the obvious manifestation of your multiple connections to different components. Sorry, Matt, but that hurts my brain. All my experiments showed that this kind of multiple component tying together of ground planes is counter-productive. I'll shut up, now. The Ground box has cured the ground loop hum, only while being connected to the Dac and DSP using 6 different cables, so it has been beneficial in my case. Having just 1 cable from the Dac to the ground box does not sound as good and does not get rid of the ground loop hum. |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 31, 2024 17:45:47 GMT
Well l'm looking forward to your views on the sound
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 1, 2024 9:51:16 GMT
And could you remind us what the rest of your system is, Matt?
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Post by HD Music & Test on Apr 1, 2024 10:03:44 GMT
I have never encountered any form of ground noise other than from a TT connections (easy fix), just be carefulo going overboard with rfi treatment, you can go in the wrong direction and given you have spent a lot of time on this Matt I would take one small step at a time imho
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