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Post by julesd68 on Mar 28, 2018 11:21:52 GMT
Classical music should be rebranded as ‘orchestral’ music to attract younger audiences,
says managing director of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (RPO), James Williams.
Read the full catastrophe here.  www.classicfm.com/music-news/classical-music-must-call-orchestral/How completely horrible. I'm not at all saying there isn't a place for that kind of 'orchestral music' in the concert hall, but let's not have a tacky re-branding exercise of classical music please.
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 28, 2018 11:39:58 GMT
The idea is worth thinking about.
"Orchestral" is about as appealing to most as classical I'm sure
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 28, 2018 12:11:11 GMT
Well Mike, I can see a possibility to have some concerts aimed fair and square at younger people, ie with film and game soundtracks and some ‘easy’ classical works that might whet their appetite for further exploration.
There is merit in that, and sure, call it an orchestral concert.
But let’s not have a new umbrella name for classical music. It is what it is.
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Post by Slinger on Mar 28, 2018 12:48:15 GMT
Well, it's not *complete* bollocks. Something does need to be done, but giving it a dodgy name (how about Pre-Electric Natural Instrument Sounds?) is probably not the answer. It should all start in our schools, and without going off on a long ramble I was exposed to classical music at school, it didn't 'take' but it did lay the foundations for me to discover it later in life. Stupidly enough, prog rock helped, I wanted to find out where ELP's Pictures At An Exhibition etc. came from. In school though, it was the spotty-swotties who actually liked classical music while us cool kids (alright, I was never actually a cool kid, but I knew a lot of them) were listening to The Moody Blues, and Procul Harum. Now, if we'd had a teacher who could have shown us where our favourite bands were stealing our favourite melodies from as an integral part of the syllabus...
1). Make music lessons a real part of the educational process and not something that is only mentioned in the same sentence as P.E and what we knew as R.I. or Religious Instruction. (R.E.? R.K.?)
2). Money should be made available for Music teachers to actually learn to play an instrument if they don't already do so, enabling them to better 'illustrate' their lessons.
3). Music Teacher should be a recognised post, not a job for the Geography master who has a free period on a Wednesday afternoon.
4). Make learning about music relevant and not another history lesson.
Of course, none of that will ever happen because the whiny gits who think that maffs and Inglish are more important will always hoover up any spare cash (an oxymoron you say, Martin?) in the school budget.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 28, 2018 13:40:30 GMT
I am not offering any answers to this, but there is a definite problem with the nomenclature.
I always understood classical music to be from a certain period - 18th Century to the early part of the 19th?
When most people use the term, they think of orchestral music, I reckon. But that misses out a lot of other stuff which is somehow lumped into the same pigeonhole. If you pointed out to them that chamber music might also be classed as classical, they would probably agree!
The use of genre names is confusing in all forms of music.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 28, 2018 14:42:09 GMT
Well, it's not *complete* bollocks. Something does need to be done, but giving it a dodgy name (how about Pre-Electric Natural Instrument Sounds?) is probably not the answer. It should all start in our schools, and without going off on a long ramble I was exposed to classical music at school, it didn't 'take' but it did lay the foundations for me to discover it later in life. Stupidly enough, prog rock helped, I wanted to find out where ELP's Pictures At An Exhibition etc. came from. In school though, it was the spotty-swotties who actually liked classical music while us cool kids (alright, I was never actually a cool kid, but I knew a lot of them) were listening to The Moody Blues, and Procul Harum. Now, if we'd had a teacher who could have shown us where our favourite bands were stealing our favourite melodies from as an integral part of the syllabus... 1). Make music lessons a real part of the educational process and not something that is only mentioned in the same sentence as P.E and what we knew as R.I. or Religious Instruction. (R.E.? R.K.?) 2). Money should be made available for Music teachers to actually learn to play an instrument if they don't already do so, enabling them to better 'illustrate' their lessons. 3). Music Teacher should be a recognised post, not a job for the Geography master who has a free period on a Wednesday afternoon. 4). Make learning about music relevant and not another history lesson. Of course, none of that will ever happen because the whiny gits who think that maffs and Inglish are more important will always hoover up any spare cash (an oxymoron you say, Martin?) in the school budget. I'm with you 100% on this - I've been banging on about music education for years now ... It doesn't seem to be high on the agenda for schools now as there just isn't the budget. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 28, 2018 14:57:08 GMT
The prize is to pick the right word or phrase. All sorts of tat sells well at premium prices when marketed right As soon as it becomes cool all is fine - until it becomes uncool  |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 28, 2018 15:09:37 GMT
Classical is the name given to the whole genre, as well as relating to a period after Baroque and before Romantic.
The name is not the issue, it's the appreciation of the music from a young age. I was exposed to classical at my primary school and also through a friend (but not my parents). More of this needs doing. There was never an us and them thing at my school, a few of us liked both rock and classical.
Do you think the railway companies solved all their problems because they now carry 'customers' rather than passengers?
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 28, 2018 15:14:26 GMT
Do you think the railway companies solved all their problems because they now carry 'customers' rather than passengers? Funny but entirely accurate IMO!! |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 28, 2018 15:14:53 GMT
Very long distance to grab them while they are young. Chances of it happening remote if that good.
Education is the answer to so many of the world's ills.
To convert those who already know classical is 'boring', for toffs or the rich needs a redo.
Big market place where a savvy company could make a load of dough.
How ?
No idea
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 28, 2018 15:36:42 GMT
I don't think it is such a challenge Mike if we get kids while they are young and receptive to new experiences.
But it will continue to be until Dept of Education take (classical) music more seriously in schools ...
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Post by MartinT on Mar 28, 2018 16:08:28 GMT
Music for toffs sounds more like peer pressure than teaching.
Before we point the finger too much, think how hard it is to get TAS members to listen to classical music. We know they're missing out, but how to get them to listen?
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Post by Slinger on Mar 28, 2018 16:14:31 GMT
There is still a perception that there's a choice of listening to Classical Music, or...everything else.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 28, 2018 21:43:00 GMT
Before we point the finger too much, think how hard it is to get TAS members to listen to classical music. We know they're missing out, but how to get them to listen? Indeed. Maybe we should launch a campaign with MikeMusic as the poster boy ...  Most, but not all, hi-fi forums are frequented by geezers who ain't young no more and can be quite set in their tastes and don't find it easy to go off-piste, even just to try ... |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 29, 2018 8:48:16 GMT
My reputation of beauty precedes me |
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Post by Tim on Mar 29, 2018 9:15:35 GMT
Education in schools IMO.
I'm sure my interest came from there when I got my first violin to take home, they soon realised how crap I was, so gave me a tuba! I was crap at that too, but I was exposed to the music and I liked it.
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Post by Clive on Mar 29, 2018 9:44:48 GMT
Is this any different to the incredibly wide genre of Jazz? Jazz has many recognised sub-genres as does Classical. It's just a word but it's one some will see as signifying stuffy. The problem isn't in the word, it's their perception.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 29, 2018 10:58:59 GMT
Spot on. It's all about perceptions that we need to challenge.
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Post by Slinger on Mar 29, 2018 13:35:22 GMT
Everyone loves classical music, it's just that some people haven't realised that they're listening to it.
Joking apart, over the last 25 years or so classical music has been on a journey, which started when Classic FM hit the airwaves in 1992 and started to seep into the public consciousness. They played Bach alongside Hans Zimmer, not to mention both flavours of John Williams.
Using a single example of movie-music (although there are many to choose from) the soundtrack to Lord Of The Rings has won classical music-themed awards alongside Oscars, BAFTAs, and Grammys for composer Howard Shore. Many film-goers will tell you that it can't be 'proper' classical music though because they like it, and they don't listen to classical music.
Then there's the other side of the coin, where Classical Music snobs lovers do not accept that these popular pieces are actually "classical music" and deem them, at best, crossover pieces, not worthy of their notice.
For classical music to survive it has to evolve and embrace new forms, as it did in the past with Stravinsky, Cage, Glass, and Schnittke et al. It also has to be de-mystified and turned into a lesson that children look forward to at school, not one that they dread, or at best, suffer.
The Classical Brit Awards came, went, got a make-over, and are returning this year. The lines are slowly (for music) blurring. We need to blur them more.
I could write a lot more but I've tried to condense as many ideas as I could into as short a post as I could, because long posts are like classical music. Too many people don't read them because they already know that they'll be boring and they will just go on and on.
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 29, 2018 14:13:12 GMT
Well put Paul.
You might have just encapsulated the lot.
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