|
|
Post by julesd68 on Mar 29, 2018 15:01:40 GMT
Then there's the other side of the coin, where Classical Music snobs lovers do not accept that these popular pieces are actually "classical music" and deem them, at best, crossover pieces, not worthy of their notice. I think that's a bit of a generalisation Paul ..  For me, new film music that uses an orchestra does not happen to make it classical music. That doesn't make me a snob - it also doesn't mean that I don't think the music has value, of course it does, but I'm not remotely interested in going to a classical concert that has film score in it. If other people do, great, I've no problem with that. But I don't think such events are key to the future of what I know as classical music. |
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Mar 29, 2018 16:05:30 GMT
Yes, but it has to be a generalisation, because I can't speak for every classical music lover, nor would I pretend to. I can only describe what I've read and heard said. The fact that you have a very rigid view of what constitutes classical music only speaks to my view of things. I want to see classical music (and we all hate that label, but its the only one we've got) treated as organic, able to grow and mutate. Other people, perhaps you included, I'm not sure, see it as a perfectly cut jewel, which is beautiful, but immutable.
Why does film music have less value than your definition of classical music? What, makes it so different that it can't be called classical? Schnittke's not classical, it's a bloody racket and it gives me a headache, but I know which rack to find it lurking in, in the record shop. Orchestral film music is played by the same orchestras, chosen by the same conductors for their repertoire, it's written in what, I would be described as the classical style, it's listened to by many of the same audiences... Have you listened to Howard Shore's score for LOTR. by the way? You really should give it a proper listen if you haven't, because I'm fairly sure I can rely on you to approach it with an open mind and you might just like it.
I just don't think that shed-loads of potential "classical music" lovers should be deterred by not being allowed into the club, because they like film music. If I could get a bunch of potential new listeners to hear Beethoven played properly for the first time because they actually came to hear orchestral music from Titanic I'd do it in a heartbeat. I obviously wouldn't need to save you a ticket though, and I think that's a shame, because I'm pretty sure that this stuff can work both ways.
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Mar 29, 2018 16:51:44 GMT
Where did I say that film music has less value? It doesn't fit into my world of classical music, but I would never criticise anyone for enjoying it recorded or live, as I specifically said in my last post. And where did I say anything about excluding anyone who enjoys that music but wants to explore earlier music? However, if you are suggesting that someone can be called a classical music fan if they love film scores but isn't interested at all in earlier orchestral music, be it Mozart or Monteverdi, or whatever, well that's another matter.
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Mar 29, 2018 17:01:13 GMT
If I could get a bunch of potential new listeners to hear Beethoven played properly for the first time because they actually came to hear orchestral music from Titanic I'd do it in a heartbeat. I obviously wouldn't need to save you a ticket though, and I think that's a shame, because I'm pretty sure that this stuff can work both ways. I'm not sure where this is coming from Paul. If you got such a group together of course I would go and as quickly as you would. I really don't know where you have this idea that I want to demonise people who like film scores and wouldn't want them in my narrow little classical purist world you seem to think I inhabit. I don't care what musical background people have if they express any inclination to show more of an interest in classical music. I would do everything to try and help. I have everything in my collection from Scriabin to Slayer ... |
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Mar 29, 2018 17:29:39 GMT
...but I'm not remotely interested in going to a classical concert that has film score in it. If other people do, great, I've no problem with that. But I don't think such events are key to the future of what I know as classical music. That's why I said I wouldn't need to save you a ticket, because you said yourself that you wouldn't be remotely interested. What my whole post was suggesting is that there is some sort of abstract "club" that doesn't allow film music in, of which you are a member. My club allows it in. We're both in classical music clubs but mine is a little less rigid over the membership policy. You said " For me, new film music that uses an orchestra does not happen to make it classical music." which is why I asked " Why does film music have less value than your definition of classical music?" Perhaps I didn't express myself very well but if you have a set of criteria for defining what classical music is not then you must, surely have a definition of what you believe classical music is. I was asking what was it about film music that made unsuitable to be classed as classical music, in your view. This is where we come back to the original point of the post, of course, and the terrible one-size-fits-all "classical music" category. If the two of us can't agree what one huge, theoretically all-encompassing, title should include then it obviously needs a lot of redefining, renaming, and subdividing. Bring on the empty horses.  |
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Mar 29, 2018 18:30:45 GMT
I'm not in any kind of musical club. My personal taste in music, diverse as it is, just doesn't include going to film score concerts.
I admire a lot of film scores but am not especially interested in listening to them without the film they are designed to accompany.
The idea of bringing film scores into classical music programming isn't a new one. When I sometimes listen to Classic FM going up the motorway I often hear things like LOTR soundtrack. I don't switch it off and I'm not offended. Classic FM see it as part of their output and that's fine.
Yes, I said I wouldn't want to go to a concert including film scores but have no interest in discouraging anyone else from doing the same if they like the idea. Quite the opposite. I would happily go to a concert of Titanic and Tchaikovsky if that was a way of encouraging a friend of mine to experience more 'traditional' classical music, if you will. I think those kind of programmes can sit side by side and be promoted without having to try and 'rebrand' both genres under a generic heading of classical music.
If the RPO have a number of such concerts this season and they are a roaring success, attracting a new and diverse audience to classical music who then go onto enjoy further concerts, then that is a good thing but those concerts aren't my thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Mar 29, 2018 20:01:42 GMT
I have and like a lot of film music.
Have also listened to many that are without any merit for me.
Listening to classical more now I find I recognise parts of the pieces. Guessing these are from TV ads and film scores.
Film scores as classical ?
Guess they fall into part/s of the classical genre.
To get more punters into classical via any route would be good.
If via film score concerts then great. Not so keen myself. Would have to know a specific.
Need to go to my first classical concert first of course
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on May 18, 2018 11:37:51 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on May 18, 2018 12:38:21 GMT
Let's hope that it meets with success, Jules. Apart from the obvious benefits, playing music brings people together at a time when too many would rather force them apart.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on May 19, 2018 12:15:31 GMT
I wishI had learned an instrument at school, but my parents didn't have much money. Should have bought a guitar as a teenager but had other pursuits.
The trouble with music lessons at school is that it can be crowd control and only those with an apparent skill get any attention.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on May 19, 2018 13:08:56 GMT
Given an acoustic guitar for my 21st.
Unfortunately with no guidance I tried but gave up, deciding that acoustic didn't sound like Hendrix any way and that's what I wanted.
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on May 19, 2018 14:18:25 GMT
I wishI had learned an instrument at school, but my parents didn't have much money. Should have bought a guitar as a teenager but had other pursuits. The trouble with music lessons at school is that it can be crowd control and only those with an apparent skill get any attention. I think traditionally that has been the case but the whole point of the Every Child A Musician scheme in Newham is that it is the polar opposite of what you say - every child, regardless of ability, is given access to an instrument and lessons for free. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/19/utopian-thinking-music-education-children |
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on May 24, 2018 11:00:35 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on May 24, 2018 12:25:28 GMT
That's a great story, Jules, and it's terrific to see that the kindness is being 'paid forward' by the recipient.
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2019 12:57:53 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Apr 29, 2019 13:23:33 GMT
Crossing classical with clubbing is not something to interest me, but if we can find ways for young people to appreciate Bach then the world will just be incrementally better for it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Apr 29, 2019 14:12:17 GMT
The club thing is interesting, to say the least - clubs are designed with quite different acoustics than concert halls. The double-bass and timp players will certainly be supplying a different sort of drum and bass than perhaps the regular punters are used to though.  What they're saying about increased access is certainly true, although I'm fairly sure some listeners are a bit surprised when they hear a piece of music, that they're already familiar with, only to be told that it falls under the ever-widening umbrella of "Classical Music," or should that be "music in a classical style," or perhaps it could just be called "Orchestral Music?" It's all labels, and how limiting, or expansive, they can be. Perhaps we should start some sort of campaign to advocate that all categories and sub-categories of music be abandoned, and we just call it "Music." Nah! On second thoughts I'm far too anal for that, and it would mean I'd have to organise every single album I own alphabetically. That's nothing like as arcane sayisfying as I enjoy. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Apr 29, 2019 14:40:52 GMT
I'm happy to call it 'Orchestral' but what then to do with solo or choral songs?
However you cut them, genres get in the way sometimes!
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2019 15:05:28 GMT
It's Classical Music!
It is finding a new audience without having to change its name.
As for clubs, it's all in how you do it. If AS Mutter did another Yellow Lounge club night over here I would be there like a shot. Great to hear this music in different, more intimate environments!
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on May 3, 2019 12:46:31 GMT
Is this what they mean by ‘re-branding classical music’?? Yikes!  |
|
