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Post by danielquinn on Jul 16, 2014 9:36:47 GMT
My agenda on forums is
A] To learn solely for my own Hifi pleasure .
b] To arrive at the truth by challenging bullshit .
c] To exercise my ego .
Fake bonhomie breeds consensus , bullshit, obfuscation , crap and shilling . Talked to the brookmeitster recently ?
IL Deuce your posts amuse me as you write them with no actual awareness or regard of your own conduct . Do you not agree you are waxing lyrical on a forum that exists largely consequent to your own conduct .
Now forgive me ,but I read what you and pinky have said about and to each other in the past any bonhomie between the two of you must neccesssarily be contrived IMO .
P.s - I have 4 kids under 11 , my home life is idyllic . |
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Post by dvh on Jul 16, 2014 9:39:06 GMT
Both of those gestures seem genuine to me. On my part it certainly is. Trouble is, Martin, some folk use forums solely for their own 'entertainment purposes', perhaps to escape from the demands of a stressful job or difficult home life, and so if the content doesn't fulfil their social needs (i.e. for them there is no 'entertainment value'), they don't like it, and so will do what they can to inject the 'fun factor' they crave. In that respect, I guess that the existence of bonhomie isn't particularly entertaining.... Isn't that right, Dennis?  Marco. |
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 9:39:59 GMT
So, Dennis, you don't believe in the concept of 'forgive and forget'?
That probably explains why both Richard and you come across as rather angry and unhappy people.
Marco.
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 16, 2014 9:41:30 GMT
Please don't ban people or invent over complicated forum rules about what you can and and can't say, that's what has put me off other forums. I want to hear what Doc and Pinkie and Marco have to say, if they are banned then I won't bother coming here. I can go elsewhere for censorship, this is currently the only forum that allows free expression. Lawrence I agree - this is THE ONLY forum. I agree with nodrog that there is thread cleansing on HFS whenever the forum owner is uncomfortable about his views being questioned. And the levels of "control" on the other main forums are I think accepted by most posters on this thread as a given. There is a level playing field here, and that will allow factual errors by any poster to be challenged, and possibly lead to appropriate moderation - particularly where there is a serious safety issue.  That is quite simply a lie, HFS has never been moderated because of my views and choices and any NVA member will confirm it. There is a simple rule, you discuss the subject not the poster and that solves ALL forum problems, apart from spamming you require no other rules. The point is as soon as one person does it the other has to join in, and with Pinky it became a speciality. So why don't I do it here, simple, because I am getting personal comments against me initiating the conflict so I reply - there is no effective ad hominem rule here and it looks to me as though the concept is not even understood. Note how the guy chews bones, every post has to have reference to his latest bone he has dug up, gnaw gnaw gnaw. It is one of the things that irritated HFS members so much about him. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 16, 2014 9:43:26 GMT
I don't believe in sweeping things under the carpet when the issues remain .
And I am with RD Lang on anger : Have you seen the state of the world only and idiot and the self obsessed could fail to be angry .
Please also note how you make your posts about me not what I actually said . |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 16, 2014 9:44:22 GMT
I too got up early and re-read all this. Last evening I decided I would be sensible and just stay out of the argument. Fanning the flames is never a good idea but sometimes ignoring the whole thing becomes just too difficult. I regret to say that the image that constantly comes to mind is that of Not the 9 o'clock news and John McEnroe. A character who thinks that thumbing his nose behind teacher's back and calling them names constitutes grown up behaviour when it clearly should be left in the playground. Yomanze might have phrased it differently than I would but the sentiment seems entirely appropriate. There is a suggestion on the thread offered as evidence that I am 'stalking' Mr Dunn. I'm afraid that both that and expectation that we are to read something into the fact that members over there support Mr Dunn's behaviour is beyond humour. If he seriously thinks that the whole world is against him or even that a few people have an agenda to to try and bait him then some quiet reflection is in order. When it comes to moderation, I can only use an example from my own experience of posting on his forum. Anything I might post there that was disagreed with just disappeared under the heading of 'thread cleaning'. (Sorry if that is old baggage) Accusations here of biased moderation joins comments above in the bin. I am tiring of his constant campaigning, diatribe, childishness and inability to see himself as the root cause of his own problems. I am disappointed in a way that I feel the need to say this given my previous comments about building bridges, but such things are a two way street. If Mr Dunn would at least make some attempt to moderate his usual aggressive stance, there may perhaps be a chance of at least tolerance if not a meeting of minds. +1, especially the bit in bold. It's Richard's total lack of introspection (ability to look in the mirror and 'examine one's self' - no, not like that, lol), that is a big part of the problem, as he frequently accuses others of committing the same type of behaviour that he's guilty of himself! However, either he just doesn't see it, or perhaps more likely, he doesn't want to see it...The fact is, whether your reasons are justified or not (and most of the time I don't consider Richard's reasons for his antagonistic behaviour are in any way justified), you cannot set out to vilify people, and create huge conflict in the process, without some kind of backlash; nor can you expect to share the same webspace elsewhere as the people you have attacked (or others who are sympathetic to their plight) and expect to be treated the same as everyone else, as if nothing has happened! Such thinking is naive in the extreme. The reality is that you create baggage, which then follows you around like a bad smell - and it takes a lot of effort to clear the stench and be given a fresh start... I admit that in the past I've been no saint (there are things I deeply regret doing), and I have behaved badly on forums and been rightly banned for it. Therefore, I know what carrying such baggage is about, and so can readily identify it in others! In that respect, Richard has several suitcases full. Only when he can curb his innate abrasiveness and aggression, and treat people with civility [and I'm talking specifically here about in normal conversations about hi-fi, with those he has no 'history' with], will his (often excellent and insightful views on audio) be recognised and remembered more than his belligerence. As for the moderating so far on TAS, I believe that the team have done a good job, in often very difficult circumstances. I admire Martin's tenacity in sticking to his vision of how he thinks things should be done, but time will tell if he can keep up with continually trying to moderate the behaviour of those who have no respect for anyone else or desire to change. Marco. This is who you are protecting Martin, as every post I can make to reply to this you will remove because I can only give you FACTUAL information as to what hypocrisy this is. |
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Post by dvh on Jul 16, 2014 9:44:31 GMT
Both of those gestures seem genuine to me. On my part it certainly is. Trouble is, Martin, some folk use forums solely for their own 'entertainment purposes', perhaps to escape from the demands of a stressful job or difficult home life, and so if the content doesn't fulfil their social needs (i.e. for them there is no 'entertainment value'), they don't like it, and so will do what they can to inject the 'fun factor' they crave. In that respect, I guess that the existence of bonhomie isn't particularly entertaining.... Isn't that right, Dennis? Marco. I've told you before not to call me Dennis! |
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Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 9:45:13 GMT
My agenda on forums is
A] To learn solely for my own Hifi pleasure .
b] To arrive at the truth by challenging bullshit .
c] To exercise my ego .
...with obviously no thought as to how those actions impact on others. Bugger the consequences, eh. You appear to be a classic example of someone who only takes what they can get and offers nothing in return. I'd call that rather selfish, wouldn't you? Marco. |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 16, 2014 9:49:23 GMT
The accusation of biased moderation is interesting. However, there are some 'circumstances' that can not be ignored: It should come as no surprise that someone's words might be scrutinised more closely than others when said person has stated on their own forum that they have an avowed intention to "stick one as far up (another member)as I can before I'm banned". How would any forum administrator deal with that knowledge? When their first thread - their very first post - on this forum is couched in terms of "Here I am, what are you going to do about it?" and then later goes on to insult two members in clear breach of our few rules, how should we deal with that? Of course, we will look more closely at what they say, and actually, it dilutes our ability to spend time reading what others are saying. When they then go on to state in their own forum that they are enjoying breaking the rules because "It's like winding up the teachers at school", they can expect to receive a little closer attention than other members. I don't see that sort of behaviour from any other member here - please point it out if I'm mistaken. Being baited and "I didn't start it" are excuses that I stopped hearing from my daughter about ten years ago and I'm surprised to hear them coming from a grown man! There is no excuse for insult, it's a very simple rule. EOTW room at HFS has a totally different set of rules and ethos to here, as I said it is SUPPOSED to be the hi-fi forum version of Private Eye, so I am afraid humour is a big part of it, and regular members and participants members at EOTW got the joke. How many times do I have to say this. |
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 9:52:45 GMT
I don't believe in sweeping things under the carpet when the issues remain . And I am with RD Lang on anger : Have you seen the state of the world only and idiot and the self obsessed could fail to be angry . Well, that's your rather jaundiced view of matters. Having continual stress and anger in your life is a sure way of shortening it. Check the medical stats. As far as the state of world is concerned, I agree, but I don't see the point in stressing out over what one can't change. Instead, I divorce myself as much as possible from 'the system' and create sanctuary on my own 'little island', as it were. That works very well for me, and as such both my wife and I enjoy a very happy and contented life  Marco. |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 16, 2014 9:54:05 GMT
Okay. Seems to be a bit of dunn bashing here by people he as upset . I will say most of the criticisms take RD'S vociferous posts out of context as if it just came out of nowhere . Additionally , you may not like the way he says it , but just focus on what he says . He is right nearly as often as I am .  Most of the shit about hi fi and forums has been highlighted by him in what was initially a one man crusade against the crap . Much of it is now forum orthodoxy .
Additionally , unlike most of us , he doesn't play at hifi , it is his livelihood and as been his life .
I do find myself laughing at the past five or six posts as this forum exists because of AOS and its moderation not H/S .
Additionally , having spent six posts attacking him how do you suppose he will respond 
And FFS please spare me the fake bonhomie and reconciliations.
All done for effect and because it is politically apt at the moment. FFS this is as plain and clear as an MPs expenses, IF you want to see it. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 16, 2014 9:55:17 GMT
Sounds good to me, Pinkster. And in light of that, I see no reason why your ban from AoS shouldn't be lifted (after consulting with the rest of the mods), presuming of course that you would want to return? Marco. Thanks Marco. I appreciate that, although in the nicest possible way I hope I don't take much advantage of it. I am trying to cut down and do some work, and so in the same way I have hardly posted on HFS or Wigwam since this forum started, I probably will do little more than pop in and say "Hi". I'm trying to cut down here too...  |
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 9:56:01 GMT
The accusation of biased moderation is interesting. However, there are some 'circumstances' that can not be ignored: It should come as no surprise that someone's words might be scrutinised more closely than others when said person has stated on their own forum that they have an avowed intention to "stick one as far up (another member)as I can before I'm banned". How would any forum administrator deal with that knowledge? When their first thread - their very first post - on this forum is couched in terms of "Here I am, what are you going to do about it?" and then later goes on to insult two members in clear breach of our few rules, how should we deal with that? Of course, we will look more closely at what they say, and actually, it dilutes our ability to spend time reading what others are saying. When they then go on to state in their own forum that they are enjoying breaking the rules because "It's like winding up the teachers at school", they can expect to receive a little closer attention than other members. I don't see that sort of behaviour from any other member here - please point it out if I'm mistaken. Being baited and "I didn't start it" are excuses that I stopped hearing from my daughter about ten years ago and I'm surprised to hear them coming from a grown man! There is no excuse for insult, it's a very simple rule. EOTW room at HFS has a totally different set of rules and ethos to here, as I said it is SUPPOSED to be the hi-fi forum version of Private Eye, so I am afraid humour is a big part of it, and regular members and participants members at EOTW got the joke. How many times do I have to say this. Trouble is, your idea of "humour" is rather different from that of most other people. Also, when you receive a taste of your own medicine (the mirror is reversed onto you, as it were), you can't handle it! Marco. |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 16, 2014 9:57:26 GMT
Additionally , you may not like the way he says it , but just focus on what he says...
Is it too much bother for him to act civilly in the first place? Does the man have any manners? Perhaps if he addressed people politely, instead of subjecting them to unprovoked rudeness, they'd be more able to focus on WHAT he has said rather than HOW he has said it? Richard says that he treats people on forums the same as he does in real life. Well, if that's the case, I'd expect him to be continually walking about with a black eye, as if I spoke to people, face to face, the way he apparently considers is acceptable, I'd fully expect to be given a regular slap! Marco. Martin THIS is an example of what I meant about reality being rewritten, and it will go on and on post after post, yet you allow it and remove any poat I make to argue my case and counter it = censorship and biased moderation. |
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 9:57:44 GMT
Sounds good to me, Pinkster. And in light of that, I see no reason why your ban from AoS shouldn't be lifted (after consulting with the rest of the mods), presuming of course that you would want to return? Marco. Thanks Marco. I appreciate that, although in the nicest possible way I hope I don't take much advantage of it. I am trying to cut down and do some work, and so in the same way I have hardly posted on HFS or Wigwam since this forum started, I probably will do little more than pop in and say "Hi". I'm trying to cut down here too... Okies, I'll have a word with the rest of the team and let you know. I don't foresee any issues, particularly as I think we understand each other better now Marco. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 16, 2014 9:59:08 GMT
That is quite simply a lie, HFS has never been moderated because of my views and choices and any NVA member will confirm it. There is a simple rule, you discuss the subject not the poster and that solves ALL forum problems, apart from spamming you require no other rules. So quite specifically how was deleting a picture of a Pip line stage anything to do with ad-hominum, or any of your other rules? And while we're on the subject of hypocrisy, how does your statement about the safety provided by RCBO's reconcile with your statement of the dangers of valve amplifiers? Or countless others...  |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 16, 2014 10:03:44 GMT
So, Dennis, you don't believe in the concept of 'forgive and forget'? That probably explains why both Richard and you come across as rather angry and unhappy people. Marco. You see Martin this is classic ad hominem, seems just someones opinion but it is designed to try to create a response and conflict. This is the ad hominem I talk about, it is nothing to do with the subject apart from it has been made so because the FIRST bit of ad hominem was allowed. As I say it is pointless for me to join in as you have tied my hands so I will just point to it for you. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 16, 2014 10:04:14 GMT
A thread on moderation that requires moderation . How very post modern 
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 16, 2014 10:08:50 GMT
Richard, to say your forum is never censored to suit your agenda is laughable quite frankly, as is your assertion on ad hominem, which you and your sidekick practise freely. No-one else is allowed though..
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 10:10:39 GMT
MODERATION: unfounded accusation. |
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Most of the shit about hi fi and forums has been highlighted by him in what was initially a one man crusade against the crap . Much of it is now forum orthodoxy . 
