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Post by TheMooN on Apr 11, 2018 20:17:07 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Apr 11, 2018 20:19:46 GMT
I wasn't talking about fuse wire and neither was your reference to a 'bit of wire'.
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Post by naim1425 on Apr 11, 2018 21:07:01 GMT
that a nice bit of flooring
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Post by nrg on Apr 11, 2018 23:05:57 GMT
If I was Audio Research I’d be absolutely devastated that 60k worth of amplification could be improved upon in such reported glowing terms by an aftermarket fuse costing a mere £130. How many R&D hours where spent on honing the sound and performance of those amplifiers and preamp only to be lifted in sound quality by such a simple component. If I where the CTO I’d fire my development team on the spot and hire the obviously better technical development team over at Synergistic Reasearch regardless of cost because they obviously know how to make a better sounding amplifier at a far lower cost.
If I was the end user I would be so pissed off that my 60k amplifiers didn’t come with these fuse as standard!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 4:07:43 GMT
Reread my post. My first line refers to fuse wire. The post from Guest also refers to replacing a fuse with fuse wire.
Yes I made a mistake and forgot to add the word fuse n line 2 (which I will add now).
There is no way I would recommend that a fuse is replaced with a bit of wire. From day one I have been stating that a fuse fitted in a 13 amp plug needs to conform to BS Standards. I have not got this information anywhere else, as I am aware of the safety requirements. My issue is just with the plug fuse. As far as chassis fuses go, CE certification is fine.
MOD: you didn't make that recommendation, others did. I have recommended nothing, I have simply reviewed and expressed my opinions about various fuses which I have found to make a significant different to the enjoyment of music. All of this is smokescreen for people with an agenda and nothing to say about the fuses themselves. I have asked that no more be discussed about certification, yet here you are still banging on about it, safety, and calling me a hypocrite. I can't seem to express to you just how tiresome this is.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2018 5:02:57 GMT
If I was Audio Research I’d be absolutely devastated that 60k worth of amplification could be improved upon in such reported glowing terms by an aftermarket fuse costing a mere £130. How many R&D hours where spent on honing the sound and performance of those amplifiers and preamp only to be lifted in sound quality by such a simple component. If I where the CTO I’d fire my development team on the spot and hire the obviously better technical development team over at Synergistic Reasearch regardless of cost because they obviously know how to make a better sounding amplifier at a far lower cost. If I was the end user I would be so pissed off that my 60k amplifiers didn’t come with these fuse as standard! Why would you blame the design team for the performance of a fuse? Why do you think that the cost of the amplifier could be 'far lower'? Very strange logic. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 7:10:08 GMT
Everything matters.
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Post by nrg on Apr 12, 2018 7:10:21 GMT
Eh? Re read my post I’d blame them for the performance of the amplifier!. It’s not me with strange logic!
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2018 7:18:21 GMT
<sigh> I really do start to wonder.
Audio Research make amplifiers for many markets. Some of them use fuses, some don't. The markets (like the UK) that use fuses are in subtle ways reducing the performance of the amplifier because of a shitty non-linear thermal device being inserted into the power line. This is hardly the fault of the designers! By using a less shitty fuse, performance can be partially restored closer to its performance without a fuse.
Does that read better?
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Post by dvh on Apr 12, 2018 7:42:10 GMT
Very little matters, and nothing matters very much. |
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Post by nrg on Apr 12, 2018 8:07:51 GMT
<sigh> I really do start to wonder. Audio Research make amplifiers for many markets. Some of them use fuses, some don't. The markets (like the UK) that use fuses are in subtle ways reducing the performance of the amplifier because of a shitty non-linear thermal device being inserted into the power line. This is hardly the fault of the designers! By using a less shitty fuse, performance can be partially restored closer to its performance without a fuse. Does that read better? I’ll resist the urge to be patronising in return. What markets in which they sell these amplifiers don’t require internal fuses? What has that got to do with anything. At this price point would you not expect the designers to have thought about and understood the potential effect upon sound quality a fuse could have on their design. I would have hoped they would have come up with either the best quality components in the first place or to have a design that doesn’t require bandaids such as after market fuses to get the best sound quality in the first place. Especially at 60k. |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2018 8:14:26 GMT
We have been discussing mains fuses (external to the component), internal fuses are a different matter and can be compensated for by putting them in the feedback loop. Saying that, they still tend to make a difference - witness the comments here by people who have tried it. I have not yet purchased a component at any price that has specialist fuses internally, so there is always potential scope for improvement. It's impossible to say what you'll hear without trying one.
My apologies for sounding patronising, I was referring to external fuses.
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Post by pre65 on Apr 12, 2018 8:20:08 GMT
There should be a warning above each post to say that any fuse which is not UK approved is used at the owners risk.
If a piece of equipment had an fused IEC socket, and a fuse in the IEC lead plug, would two of these special fuses make it sound twice as good ?
Serious question.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2018 8:28:30 GMT
No, the warning is in our forum notices. We are not going to become 'nanny state' with warnings everywhere disrupting the flow of good debate. Each member should understand quite clearly that they make changes at their own risk.
I have an SR fuse in my master plug and another in the back of the P10 regenerator. Both have an effect so they are partially reducing two lots of deleterious effects from poor fuses. It's certainly nowhere near 'twice as good'!
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Post by nrg on Apr 12, 2018 8:42:39 GMT
We have been discussing mains fuses (external to the component), internal fuses are a different matter and can be compensated for by putting them in the feedback loop. Saying that, they still tend to make a difference - witness the comments here by people who have tried it. I have not yet purchased a component at any price that has specialist fuses internally, so there is always potential scope for improvement. It's impossible to say what you'll hear without trying one. My apologies for sounding patronising, I was referring to external fuses. Understandable. It’s easy to lose track in this thread but TheMoon/DaveC conversation was about the internal fuses. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 12, 2018 9:33:22 GMT
Very little matters, and nothing matters very much. Everything matters. It really does |
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Post by pre65 on Apr 12, 2018 12:33:59 GMT
As an aside, has anyone tried miniature circuit breakers instead of fuses ?
Not easy on commercial equipment I suppose, but no problems for diy.
I built a dual mono power supply (about 450v) for valve amps and each channel had an MCB. When I did something really silly once with a prototype amps the MCBs tripped before any serious damage was done.
And they are not expensive. 
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2018 12:50:36 GMT
Interestingly, there is an MCB on the back of my P10 regenerator which has never tripped.
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Post by Slinger on Apr 12, 2018 13:10:01 GMT
<mildly sarcastic humour>
Wow! People stalking out AND being suspended...it just goes to show how vitally important this discussion actually is in the scheme of things. </mildly sarcastic humour>  
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Post by MartinT on Apr 12, 2018 13:44:29 GMT
You could apply that to this whole forum, Paul  The point being that we're mostly here for a bit of convivial musical enjoyment, not to sort out world peace. |
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