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Post by nrg on Feb 8, 2018 22:38:54 GMT
I’ve now had time to listen to the copper replacement ‘fuses’. Im pretty well tuned into my setup as I’m sure you all are with yours, mine hasn’t change for about three years except for the odd turntable or three. I can detect differences in interconnects, cartridge VTF/VTA, valves etc. some changes are subtle some not so so I’m confident in my ability in detecting differences. I tried them in both my phono/preamp and power amp. And combinations of the two with a wide variety of music. I can honestly say I cannot hear any differences at all between the standard 13amp fuse and the copper rod. If there is a difference it’s well below my threshold of hearing or my gear is not resolving it or maybe the stars aren’t aligned for me. I’ll go for the latter. Anyhow, bottom line, I’m not investing, I’m out! Have fun! Thank you Neal. I much appreciate your report here for, as you know, having known and shared with you for many years, I trust your ears. I am surprised you found no difference but that might be because of point of application, ie. mains supply. I distinctly remember, back in the old WAD forum days, we experimented with different equipment internal fuses and I was clearly sure that swapping out the standard 1.6mA slow blow chassis fuse for a 5mA equivillant brought an improvement to the sound with my old WAD KaT88 amp. A more solid and authoritive sound. Having said that, I can find no arguement to justify buying into these foo fuses. The SR website is stuffed with unscientific marketing rubbish which in itself should raise thoughts of caution for any potential buyer. Of course, the bottom line is they are not legal. Hi Greg, no problem, only reporting what I heard. The chassis fuse was a different scenario in that on both the 300B PP and the KT88 amps the fuse was woefully underrated, I recall one experiment with the 300B in a test setup watching the standard fuse literally wilt when the amp was fist powered up and then distort visually when playing a bass heavy track. I think they where 1.6amp though not mA  Fitting a higher rated fuse certainly improved the sound. One of these fancy fuses in the amp itself maybe something to try but as for the mains.....no, not for me. Anyhow hope you are well! |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2018 23:16:27 GMT
Please everyone calm down now. We really don't need hidden agendas and to settle old scores, especially across forums.
Some of us hear differences with these fuses and some don't. Those of us who do are not going to stop using them. Those who don't shouldn't care and should certainly not try to be fun filters for those of us who do.
No more thinly disguised abuse please or the moderation is going to get heavy and I may need to lock the thread.
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Post by nrg on Feb 8, 2018 23:35:19 GMT
I sincerely hope that is not aimed at me....?
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Post by MartinT on Feb 9, 2018 0:29:31 GMT
It's aimed at everyone. We've given this thread plenty of slack but it's time to return to discussing the product now.
It's only a bloody fuse!
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 9, 2018 17:34:08 GMT
Martin, If you are struggling to insert that 13A fuse, @ pinkie , into your 20mm fuse holder just smash it home with a rubber mallet. i do hope that you go for a Blue for your Pass Pre. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 9, 2018 18:03:58 GMT
Did Richard really suggest that?
I envisage two more Blue 13A fuses for the Pass pre and Belles power amps. I also need to check chassis fuses but need to watch the expenditure as my hi-fi fund is being diverted to a new TV to keep the family happy.
Oh yes, I need to put the 20mm Red into the Caiman SEG, too.
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 9, 2018 18:23:43 GMT
Martin, I would recommend that you stay with your current 13A fuses to Pre and Power for now and use the funds to replace the 20mm chassis fuses in those componants, For my part I have experienced more bang for buck running SR fuses on the power rail of equipment than the 13A wall plug, especially as you are running on a spur and via an P10.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 9, 2018 18:45:22 GMT
Thanks, I'll need to delve inside to see what they have.
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 9, 2018 19:00:29 GMT
I had a quick shufty at the Pass PDF and it seemed to indicate 0.5A slow blow however best to get eyes on.
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Post by pinkie on Feb 10, 2018 10:03:56 GMT
Andrew Requirements relating to plugs are dealt with by The Plugs and Sockets etc (Safety Regulations) 1994See also the Plugs and Sockets regs guidanceIn essence if you want to plug something using mains power into the mains in your home you have to use a BS1363 plug fitted with a BS1362 fuse. There are exceptions, like specific low voltage devices (wallwarts etc) and razors and electric toothbrushes into razor sockets, and ovens, dishwashers etc into fixed plate switched connections (still fused), luminaires on lighting circuits (you could probably use BS546 here But the punchline is equipment which has a cable carrying 240v plugged into a wall in a domestic installation has to do so using a BS1363 plug fitted with a BS1362 fuse (paragraphs 11 and 12) |
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Post by pinkie on Feb 10, 2018 10:11:28 GMT
Martin
I agree completely that there is no need for antagonism between those who enjoy hearing a difference in their music when they know they have fitted an audiophile fuse in the mains supply and those who hear no such difference. I would not wish to spoil anybodys enjoyment from what they hear when they know they have changed a mains fuse for another mains fuse (or know they have turned it round the other way). Fill yer boots.
Equally, those of us who hear no such differences are entirely comfortable that our enjoyment of listening to music is in no way impaired by the fact. There is no need to surmise hearing impairment or equipment defects.
Safety and regulations are another matter. I am concerned about safety , and disappointed that you still haven't explained to me why my shucko connections to the mains (which comply with all local regulations) are less safe than your fused connections (which since they use fuses which are not BS1362 approved, do not comply with the regulations)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 11:08:12 GMT
Andrew Requirements relating to plugs are dealt with by The Plugs and Sockets etc (Safety Regulations) 1994See also the Plugs and Sockets regs guidanceIn essence if you want to plug something using mains power into the mains in your home you have to use a BS1363 plug fitted with a BS1362 fuse. There are exceptions, like specific low voltage devices (wallwarts etc) and razors and electric toothbrushes into razor sockets, and ovens, dishwashers etc into fixed plate switched connections (still fused), luminaires on lighting circuits (you could probably use BS546 here But the punchline is equipment which has a cable carrying 240v plugged into a wall in a domestic installation has to do so using a BS1363 plug fitted with a BS1362 fuse (paragraphs 11 and 12) Thanks for the links, Richard. Having read them and the Electrical Equipment (safety) Regulation 1994 I agree with you that BS546 plugs and sockets do not appear to be authorised for general domestic use. That's not to say they are unsafe, as that would depend on other circumstances. They don't appear to be compliant though. Speaking entirely personally here, compliance would not bother me so much, but safety would. I'd take the same view of fuses. Coming back to these fuses, I've read plenty personal accounts of them fusing and there are specs published, so I'd have no worries about safety. From what I've read, Synergistic Research don't subscribe to the view that their fuses can't be better than no fuse at all because they claim that the effects go beyond the fuse itself. That's not to say they will be better than no fuse at all, but I remain open to the possibility. I'd certainly never rule it out without trying for myself. Even then, I'd be reluctant to assume that my experience would be valid for others. I am less bothered by the fancy terminology SR use to describe how these fuses work because this does not affect the possibility that they do affect the mains beyond their physical space. History is full of incorrect scientific theories based on real observable phenomena. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 10, 2018 11:36:57 GMT
I agree completely that there is no need for antagonism between those who enjoy hearing a difference in their music when they know they have fitted an audiophile fuse in the mains supply and those who hear no such difference. I would not wish to spoil anybodys enjoyment from what they hear when they know they have changed a mains fuse for another mains fuse (or know they have turned it round the other way). Fill yer boots. Equally, those of us who hear no such differences are entirely comfortable that our enjoyment of listening to music is in no way impaired by the fact. There is no need to surmise hearing impairment or equipment defects. Agreed, Richard, and I apologise for suggesting that your system must be lacking. I've heard enough systems in my life that I know how differently they can perform. On the safety front, I am happy that mine is safe and yet benefits greatly from the dedicated radial. The SR will blow, but likely the breaker will trip first. I don't advocate anything, it's for each person to determine their own safety provisions. |
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Post by dsjr on Feb 10, 2018 11:58:19 GMT
I hardly think it's your job to tell people what they should, or shouldn't post, let alone tell them to stop posting. Might I suggest to everyone that they respect the title of the post, and the poster, and stop using it to settle perceived old scores? Just a suggestion of course, not an order. And it is yours ? I rather consider my ' suggested ' course of action of DSJR to be entirely along the lines of " respect the title of the post, and the poster" Might I suggest that your considerations on the point I made regarding 30 years of fuse ' development' if any, would have been much more useful and interesting.
The most important thing is the music itself, but if like me the 'gear' has an appeal, then getting the best 'gear' to reproduce this music is paramount. A bloody fuse is all but irrelevant where the fundamental performance of an amplifier circuit and especially a complex passive loudspeaker is concerned. I'm sorry, I can't explain or express it further.
IN NO WAY are my gash stereo sets going to be bettered by a £130 fuse or even a £60 one and if you then tell me it's because my stereo's aren't 'sophisticated enough' to reproduce the subtleties I could well argue back that these subtleties probably weren't there in the first place - and I still stand by my recommendation for Martin to venture beyond his supplying dealer and have a lengthy reappraisal of modern pro stuff, as accurate reproduction of the finest details (that are really there) in the far distance of a music mix is what he's trying to achieve judging by the gear and room journeys he's followed thus far.
Martin, I apologise if I appear pompous or patronising in any way. I sincerely don't mean to be.
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Post by pinkie on Feb 10, 2018 12:01:48 GMT
Andrew
I haven't said BS546 was unsafe. I suggested to Martin that a copper bar in his BS1363 plug (another unfused arrangement) wasn't any less safe on a dedicated radial with 16A or less breaker protection than my own legitimate arrangements in France. But neither a copper bar, nor a BS546 plug , nor a plug with an SR fuse in it comply with the UK regulations. Nor would the Shucko plug and socket I have here.
My point to Martin, was that there appeared to be a twist in his logic, a sort of composite mix of wanting to follow some of the regulations but not others and adding a safety factor which I still can't understand. But don't wish to pursue.
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 10, 2018 13:05:32 GMT
The most important thing is the music itself, but if like me the 'gear' has an appeal, then getting the best 'gear' to reproduce this music is paramount. A bloody fuse is all but irrelevant where the fundamental performance of an amplifier circuit and especially a complex passive loudspeaker is concerned. I'm sorry, I can't explain or express it further.
IN NO WAY are my gash stereo sets going to be bettered by a £130 fuse or even a £60 one
And at one time I probably would have agreed with you, UP until the day that a friend lent me an chassis rail SR Red fuse for my Pre Amp, I was *Highly* sceptical and thought him mad for paying so much for a flipping fuse, until I heard unequivocally how the reply on a number of go to demo tracks that I 'thought' I knew intimately was enhanced in every way ( insert ones own mixture of audiophile speakee ) I had no buyers expectation bias In fact I really did not want to hear any difference from the previous incumbant fuse however the evolution of sound could not be ignored or denied, nor was it so subtle that I had to strain to hear it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2018 13:30:01 GMT
Andrew I haven't said BS546 was unsafe. I suggested to Martin that a copper bar in his BS1363 plug (another unfused arrangement) wasn't any less safe on a dedicated radial with 16A or less breaker protection than my own legitimate arrangements in France. But neither a copper bar, nor a BS546 plug , nor a plug with an SR fuse in it comply with the UK regulations. Nor would the Shucko plug and socket I have here. My point to Martin, was that there appeared to be a twist in his logic, a sort of composite mix of wanting to follow some of the regulations but not others and adding a safety factor which I still can't understand. But don't wish to pursue. I wasn't intending to infer you had ever said BS546 was unsafe. That was never my understanding of what you'd said. I was simply making the distinction between safety and compliance for the purposes of my own logic, rather than as a response to anything you'd said. Apologies if it came across otherwise. I'd agree with you that using an unfused plug on a radial circuit with a <16a breaker is no less safe in France that it is in the UK. It's simply compliant in one location and not in another. |
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Post by TheMooN on Feb 10, 2018 16:46:54 GMT
I wonder whether any qualified professional or knowledgable fellow might comment upon the following questions.
Is the following mains topology Stricktly *Legal* within the current UK regulations ?
A full Schuko plug and receptical equipment loom fed by a mains lead to fused UK plug into mains wall receptical into standard UK ring mains, I would think so however ?
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 10, 2018 17:06:48 GMT
Been recommended by a few. MCRU being one.
I have an Audio Magic filter box.
UK cable and fuse going in.
After lots of filtering ... Schuko plugs and leads leading to each piece of kit. Not fused.
Internal fuses in place inside the kit of course
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Post by zippy on Feb 10, 2018 17:18:12 GMT
Been recommended by a few. MCRU being one. I have an Audio Magic filter box. UK cable and fuse going in. After lots of filtering ... Schuko plugs and leads leading to each piece of kit. Not fused. Internal fuses in place inside the kit of course I use similar - an AG1500 regenerator whose output feeds via IEC plug to IEC multiway and each piece of equipment has an IEC plug. Hence the only external fuse is the one in the AG1500 input. 'Powerinspired' (AG makers) assured me that is both safe and legal. Can't say it actually makes any difference to the sound though !! |
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