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Post by zippy on Nov 7, 2016 13:34:11 GMT
I plug direct into the switched and then the unswitched socket for the direct comparison No other leads or blocks If I read you right you plugged into other things which the.plugged into the socket. How right or wrong am I on that ? I think you are correct Mike but I'm not sure of your point. I have no switched sockets - this is France. However, my equipment is connected with fuses and switches - normally We compared that with a direct unfused unswitched connection for the power amp We heard no difference Perhaps one fuse spoils the sound but having a 2nd fuse in the connections balances it back up again. Maybe that's why these mains things never work for me - I have counter-balancing fuses Maybe that will be the next big thing for the hifi owner who already has everything else - phase compensating fuses
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Post by pinkie on Nov 8, 2016 11:50:22 GMT
He put up with this for five years, three weeks before he moved from Dorset, SSE were called to a fault in the road found that who ever layed the original wiring after the war had it out of phase. They fixed the fault and replaced a good length of wiring in the road, after that it sounded fabulous irony is the place he moved to just wasn't the same sonically, he was say we say slightly miffed! What do you mean - "out of phase" ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 13:26:11 GMT
Pinkie
Exactly how it was explained to me by the owner of the property out of phase.
Are you retired now or just moved to France to find a better life?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 13:35:37 GMT
He was probably out of phase compared to surrounding properties, as they are normally grouped in phases.
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Post by pinkie on Nov 8, 2016 14:30:56 GMT
Pinkie Exactly how it was explained to me by the owner of the property out of phase. Are you retired now or just moved to France to find a better life? I would love to be retired. I am hoping to progressively "ease back" but for now I am clinging to every bit of business in a paranoid fashion until we are properly established. It was for quality of life - based on the realisation that I could continue my UK business remotely (hopefully!).
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Post by pinkie on Nov 8, 2016 14:43:42 GMT
He was probably out of phase compared to surrounding properties, as they are normally grouped in phases. Still not with it yet. Still trying to adapt to funny French mains. My french electrician has just confirmed the EDF NEVER supply an earth connection, so all installations are TT. And they only seem to bother to test earth with a loop impedance test at the socket. I guess given that the vast majority of the impedance is supply side of the consumer unit the "error" from including the socket and household wiring was vanishingly small. But my French wasn't good enough for that. I'll take my UK sparky for a drink when I'm back. Also just realised that all the handy UK / France adaptors phase invert (by which I mean swap brown and blue). Fortunately I have only identified one item so far which might matter (a heater) and I am on the case for a proper french plug to replace it. I see we have 3 phase to the top of the EDF pole - with one of the 3 supplying my box as monophase. But that would not make me "out of phase" with neighbouring properties. EDF (or the UK supplier) would look to balance the phases the same way I would balance a board in the house to supply monophase from 3 phase incoming. I guess if the supply balance was way out that puts a heavy current on the neutral conductor and potentially limits total power delivery. But usually it just means bigger bills.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 8, 2016 17:12:20 GMT
We have a three phase supply coming to the house, although I expect now that only one is in use. The others were probably added for storage heaters in the past, which were removed when gas/radiator heating was installed in the 80's. Some of the old wiring is still there though and supply from pole to the switch-banks in the consumer unit, most of which do nothing now.
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Post by Sovereign on Nov 8, 2016 17:49:17 GMT
Hope it goes well mate, I'm sure it will. Pinkie Exactly how it was explained to me by the owner of the property out of phase. Are you retired now or just moved to France to find a better life? I would love to be retired. I am hoping to progressively "ease back" but for now I am clinging to every bit of business in a paranoid fashion until we are properly established. It was for quality of life - based on the realisation that I could continue my UK business remotely (hopefully!).
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Post by pinkie on Nov 8, 2016 17:57:25 GMT
We have a three phase supply coming to the house, although I expect now that only one is in use. The others were probably added for storage heaters in the past, which were removed when gas/radiator heating was installed in the 80's. Some of the old wiring is still there though and supply from pole to the switch-banks in the consumer unit, most of which do nothing now. Ideally you want to balance the 3 phases. This is how 3 "phase" lines can work with just one "neutral" line of the same cable thickness. Moreover here in France 3 phase is quite common. The French have this utterly potty system whereby you pay a variable standing charge depending on your chosen supply capacity. So you can chose 3, 6,9,12 or 15KVA supplies on monophase. 15KVA is the maximum available monophase, but you can replicate all 5 in 3 phase. Well - in practice it starts with 18KVA (3x6KVA). Problem is if you have 3 6KVA supplies and connect your monophase oven - that can be a 7.5kva item on its own. Combine it with the tumble dryer and you are maybe trying to draw 10KVA on a 6KVA phase - which will duly trip. The art is to try to balance the loads on each of the 3 boards so that at any time of day, each board is drawing roughly the same current. It obviously can't be perfect - but it needs to be good enough to avoid tripping the supply on one or more of the phases Interestingly having come up with this bonkers idea of differing supply power tarrifs, they have a French solution to the problem. We have electric heating, and as a result, if we used all main circuits (heaters, water heater, oven, tumble dryer ) we would probably draw 18KVA and that was before adding air conditioning and a pool pump, and maybe a pool heat pump. However, in practice you rarely use all at the same time - so we have a 15KVA (maximum monophase) supply. The french install each heater radial circuit with a "fil pilote" which is a control wire for that heater. So brown, blue, green and yellow and purple (only in france its blue orange and green yellow). Purple is the fil pilote - which can be connected to a "delesteur" which will monitor total current draw, and cut chosen circuits in priority order to avoid tripping the overall limit Love 'em
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 9, 2016 15:10:32 GMT
I plug direct into the switched and then the unswitched socket for the direct comparison No other leads or blocks If I read you right you plugged into other things which the.plugged into the socket. How right or wrong am I on that ? I think you are correct Mike but I'm not sure of your point. I have no switched sockets - this is France. However, my equipment is connected with fuses and switches - normally We compared that with a direct unfused unswitched connection for the power amp We heard no difference Perhaps one fuse spoils the sound but having a 2nd fuse in the connections balances it back up again. Maybe that's why these mains things never work for me - I have counter-balancing fuses I thought you were comparing switched to unswitched sockets
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Post by dsjr on Nov 9, 2016 15:56:45 GMT
Mike, I don't know how you can, properly, compare such sockets, as if it's mains wiring, you need time to swap them over. if the existing sockets are well established, the wires behind could be loose, or terminals slightly corroded, therefore nulling the comparison as a substitute new switched socket would also 'sound' better I think.
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 9, 2016 17:07:50 GMT
I have swapped in the same place. Takes a few.minutes so not arduous.
Have swapped old to new, old to old, new to new, new to old Here I can swap between both just by moving the P10l lead from one to t,other.
For me this is the place to start improving your hifi sound
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Post by pinkie on Nov 10, 2016 7:08:27 GMT
I have swapped in the same place. Takes a few.minutes so not arduous. Have swapped old to new, old to old, new to new, new to old Here I can swap between both just by moving the P10l lead from one to t,other. For me this is the place to start improving your hifi sound I realise that Mike. But I prefer to buy good speakers amplifiers, sources and records and cd's rather than try to listen to a mains socket. I have never heard a mains socket so good it made me want somebody's system. Speakers - another matter altogether. Actually - I've never heard one mains socket sound different from another** . Speakers - another matter altogether. Maybe I should replace my french switchless sockets with English ones to start my HiFi improvement ? What is it about an English unswitched socket which changes the way equipment works and sounds, but not how it measures? I actually had English sockets on a switched multiway block plugged into one of the French sockets. We replaced that with a direct french socket and it made no difference. ** I had one seriously defective socket - which did affect the sound. Lots of clicks and bangs.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 10, 2016 7:19:33 GMT
Just because you can't hear any differences, Richard, doesn't mean there aren't any. In some situations, upgrading your mains can make a better improvement than buying an upgraded component.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 7:57:18 GMT
Surely that depends on the mains and components you already have? If you have quiet mains, then any "upgrades" will have a negligible effect?
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Post by pinkie on Nov 10, 2016 8:42:02 GMT
Just because you can't hear any differences, Richard, doesn't mean there aren't any. In some situations, upgrading your mains can make a better improvement than buying an upgraded component. I cant hear any differences. Kevin couldn't hear any differences. I could bring on a long cast of auditioners who can't hear any differences. But I'm happy for those that enjoy their music experience that way.
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Post by pinkie on Nov 10, 2016 8:46:59 GMT
Surely that depends on the mains and components you already have? If you have quiet mains, then any "upgrades" will have a negligible effect? I don't think even the most ardent mains champion groping for a rational explanation to a subjective effect argues sockets affect noise. We're talking GRUNT sonny boy. Reactance, impedance, current delivery If you can reduce the total reactance by a fraction, you will increase the voltage at the power supply by a fraction. Maybe decimals of a volt. That can make it sound different. Of course, as discussed elsewhere the voltage in the wall can vary between 206V and 253v so its a bit hit and miss getting the right wire for the right day (hour) for the right supply company. But worth it.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 10, 2016 9:01:44 GMT
Impedance is king here, or rather low impedance. Not only does it help to keep noise at bay, it helps with instantaneous current delivery.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 10:01:57 GMT
Out of interest, I contacted Power Inspired about the current delivery of the AG1500 and it is rated at 6A continuous and 12A momentary. Is this enough for good dynamics in a HiFi system?
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Post by pinkie on Nov 10, 2016 10:44:36 GMT
Impedance is king here, or rather low impedance. Not only does it help to keep noise at bay, it helps with instantaneous current delivery. How?
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