|
|
Post by pre65 on Nov 3, 2016 19:50:46 GMT
duplication.
|
|
|
|
Post by pre65 on Nov 3, 2016 19:53:14 GMT
So it's either marvelous and really noticeable, or complete bollocks. 
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Nov 3, 2016 20:00:45 GMT
Well its not expensive to try out for yourself
|
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 3, 2016 20:10:15 GMT
I have played this at my place to people who are not into hifi on various kit through the years They also heard the improvement. When told what it was most were amused and baffled. You have guests, who aren't into HiFi, and you play them some music to listen to - remove the sockets from the wall and replace them with new ones - and ask people who weren't interested in HiFi to listen to them again and they hear a difference ?? I'd never get them back in the house along the same lines as this,when I owned my first house, I lived in one room and rented out the other four rooms to mates. I remember them looking at me like I was a complete fruit cake when they saw the lengths I would go to to get a tiny nuance of better sound. They literally thought I was barking mad, it became quite hysterical at times. We would have each other rolling around the floor cracking up as I'd just spend a grand on an upgrade and not one of us could hear any difference, maybe it was because we were all high as a kite. |
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 3, 2016 20:16:12 GMT
So it's either marvelous and really noticeable, or complete bollocks. To a certain extend I kind of agree with you. I think it does make a good deal of difference but I think you have to know the sound of your own Hifi really well. I'm not really one for going to bake offs just to hear a new RCA plug, as I won't hear the difference, as I don't know the original sound of someone else's Hifi well enough as a reference to go by. I respect those that can do this. However change a plug in my own system that I listen to most nights, and the difference is there to be heard. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 3, 2016 20:52:37 GMT
The more attention you give to mains and power in general, the better the sound gets. I never heard a direct comparison between switched and unswitched of the same brand, because changing them around is a pain. I did hear a very worthwhile improvement in changing to an unswitched silver double socket, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Nov 4, 2016 8:35:15 GMT
Had to think and first I thought I hadn't either but we had the same make sockets installed when the house was refurbed.
Some switched and a few unswitched.
There must be places where I could compare them, but then we get into the next barrier - what use has each one had.
If you want more music from your system try it.
Everyone time I changed I heard an improvement.
The more work I have done on mains the better the sound I hear, more of the original music from the recording gets to my ears.
Try it. Dead simple to do as long as you are careful, turning off the mains before and checking carefully.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 4, 2016 10:03:48 GMT
I remember as a business about five years ago we had a client in Tunbridge Wells , he had poor mains quality to his house and consistent irregular readings . After a lot of complaining and the electricity board unable to fix the problem they installed something like a substation at the very end of his garden. As his garden was about 400 feet long he didn't mind, in fact, he was thrilled . He had a huge Naim system with every possible box and add on and upgrades you could imagine with big PMC speakers . He said the upgrade to his system after the new substation was installed was massive .
That must have been the mother of all A/B comparisons
|
|
|
|
Post by zippy on Nov 4, 2016 10:13:17 GMT
I don't get why so many people are prepared to mess around with mains, even to the extent of having an isolated mains supply for their hifi, when for a small amount more cash a mains regenerator should (in theory at least) cure all known mains ills.
I'd be happy to hear from anyone who's tried both a mains upgrade AND a regenerator - is my supposition wrong ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 10:42:52 GMT
A mains regenerator may not be able to supply the peak current demands, depending on the model. Mains has no issue here.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkie on Nov 4, 2016 10:54:42 GMT
A mains regenerator may not be able to supply the peak current demands, depending on the model. Mains has no issue here. It will also share an earth / ground with the rest of the house, and offer no assistance with airborne interference. |
|
|
|
Post by Clive on Nov 4, 2016 10:56:45 GMT
I CBA to to do the comparisons but I'd like to think the improvements in sound come not so much from switched to unswitched mains sockets but an old tarnished socket being changed for a shiny new one. Then there's those pesky life saving fuses adding yet more connections and of course switched IEC sockets too. There is a some logic to building a hardwired system into a single box.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkie on Nov 4, 2016 10:59:53 GMT
Mike
Wonky is coming here tomorrow. My HiFi uses british fused plugs in a British fused multiway block connected to a radial circuit via a french unfused plug on a french unfused socket. I can run a quality french IEC lead to the adjacent unswitched french socket for one piece of equipment. Which bit of kit do I wire up that way for Kevin and I to hear the difference - pre amp, power amp, CD transport or DAC ?
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2016 11:00:17 GMT
A mains regenerator (or any power supply) has a maximum PSRR (Power Supply Rejection Ratio), or ability to suppress noise and garbage from the incoming mains. Whatever is left still gets through, albeit suppressed by that ratio.
If you improve the quality of the incoming mains, the regenerator will be working on a lower incoming noise content and so the output will be quieter still.
Secondly, depending on the 'magnetics', a regenerator can in theory provide higher peak short-term current than the mains itself.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkie on Nov 4, 2016 13:49:13 GMT
A mains regenerator (or any power supply) has a maximum PSRR (Power Supply Rejection Ratio), or ability to suppress noise and garbage from the incoming mains. Whatever is left still gets through, albeit suppressed by that ratio. If you improve the quality of the incoming mains, the regenerator will be working on a lower incoming noise content and so the output will be quieter still. Secondly, depending on the 'magnetics', a regenerator can in theory provide higher peak short-term current than the mains itself. So ideally, you need to plug your mains regenerator into a mains regenerator, which should in turn be plugged into a mains regenerator. I think there is a little confusion about noise. Noise , imperfections in the sine wave, within BIG tolerances on the main voltage (blue and brown) should have no impact on a good power supply (especially a decent SMPS). This is not subjective - it is measurable. If noise on the mains influenced the output of a devices power supply, it would manifest in the noise on the output of the device. If noisy mains, or quiet mains affected the measured noise on the AHB2 then the results would differ depending on the mains used for testing, the designer and manufacturer would pay attention to mains noise when measuring to get the best results - and they don't. Noise levels for that amp, with any (normal) mains you care to feed it are close to the threshold of measurement. Noise currents on the ground wire are unaffected by the regeneration of the mains, if they are connected to the equipment ground, and since the ground wire is often common to the signal ground on some equipment, these noise currents can influence the sound produced by the HiFi. |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2016 14:42:25 GMT
Richard - it's physics. All power supplies have a noise rejection ratio. This is the maximum they can reject - no such power supply exists that has an infinite rejection ratio.
Therefore the phrase "should have no impact on a good power supply" is inaccurate. Noise always has an impact, no matter how small.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Nov 4, 2016 14:48:16 GMT
First thing to do is totally forget your 'friendly dealer with a toy box of often expensive upgrade goodies.'
Next, get a qualified electrician on to professionally check ALL your mains connections around the house, from meter and fuse box to room sockets as it's amazing how loose they can get after twenty years or so - I needed to repair a wall mounted socket box, turned off the power at the distribution box and when gently pulling out the twin socket bank, the earth wire just pulled out, only pressure from behind was keeping it in contact... I bet the difference in sound would be comparable and getting a dedicated spur to the Hifi would circumvent even this one. Oh, and some brasso or similar on your mains plugs too, if you're really keen.......
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkie on Nov 4, 2016 15:58:11 GMT
Richard - it's physics. All power supplies have a noise rejection ratio. This is the maximum they can reject - no such power supply exists that has an infinite rejection ratio. Therefore the phrase "should have no impact on a good power supply" is inaccurate. Noise always has an impact, no matter how small. Again, I think our problem is the definition of noise We are trying to make DC with a power supply. Ruler flat reference voltage with no ripple In that context the "noise" is your beautiful smooth symmetric perfect sinewave. The "noise" that the power supply is trying to reject is not hairy edges or a clipped top of a sinewave - it is the sinewave itself. In that context , a clipped "noisy" mains waveform is actually easier for a power supply to tackle. If you fed a power supply pure reference DC it would have no "noise" to reject. And to the extent there is "noise" - that is measured on the output of the amplifier . Where else can it manifest itself with any relevance to the performance of the equipment? |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Nov 4, 2016 16:02:07 GMT
Umm - no. Noise is superimposed on the mains sinewave. It gets through by the PSRR ratio to a much lower level. You can't eliminate it by converting it to DC, it still ends up on the rails.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sovereign on Nov 4, 2016 16:07:40 GMT
I don't get why so many people are prepared to mess around with mains, even to the extent of having an isolated mains supply for their hifi, when for a small amount more cash a mains regenerator should (in theory at least) cure all known mains ills. I'd be happy to hear from anyone who's tried both a mains upgrade AND a regenerator - is my supposition wrong ? I have had both a mains regenerator and a balanced toroid. The region was excellent, but it didn't cure all known mains ills. Same as the BPS, does a fantastic job on its own. However run the BPS and region together and you gain an accumulative effect, either solution is excellent, combine the two and we get an even greater performance gain. In the end, as I preferred the effect of the BPS more, I set my task of building an ultimate BPS, which I have now and so does Docfoster on Audiochews and there are a few others floating around. Is it the ultimate BPS? Probably not, but the best I was willing to make. I should be working on a IE balanced transformer soon, which should be interesting......Along with another MTBPS but a smaller version. |
|
