|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 7, 2024 12:55:31 GMT
pads under the P12 maybe? LOL I'm ahead of you: the BR Pads currently under the P10 will be re-used! I've also ordered another set of Schramm weights (since the P12 is half the height of the P10) and will swap the SR Orange fuse over. |
|
|
|
Post by palace on Feb 7, 2024 13:53:23 GMT
It's a PS Audio Power Plant P12. Here's how it came about: as you all know, I've worked hard to reduce all noise in my system as it is so deleterious to playback quality in a digital system. Clearly, the noise levels are at an all-time low as my sound quality has risen to an all-time high. So where else is there noise that I can do something about? Thinking about it over a few weeks, I have addressed many areas and circled back to the basics again. Thinking some more, I realised that my Power Plant P10 regenerator is now very old (2012 so 12 years old) and conforms to an earlier design incorporating a more rudimentary sinewave synthesiser. I had also added a P3 regenerator to deal with the sensitive streamer/DDC/DAC components, which incorporates a DSD sinewave synthesiser, and that had given me a sizeable uplift in sound quality. Since my P10 is also feeding the pre-stages in my streaming setup (router, EtherREGEN, clock), as well as the power amp, any improvement in noise here should really help. In my table below, the key improvement is the lower output impedance, helping to short any noise to ground. The actual distortion I get from my P10 is very low (0.1%), but there is no direct noise measurement in the specifications - lower output impedance is the indicator I'm using to justify lower noise, and the P3's lower output impedance provides supporting evidence. One casual enquiry with the good Mr Brook of MCRU (A PS Audio dealer), and 'an offer which I could not refuse' was made  A shiny new Power Plant P12 is on its way to replace the old P10.  P10 status screen  As I have found with my shielding efforts initially plastering with self-adhesive copper foil my Mark Manwaring-White Croft phono stage fitted with SUT's the extra gain exposing a pre-existing unnoticed noise problem. Reducing noise in a system does not just affect digital it improves in my case the sounds from my turntable via the Croft & as I widened my scope to include all non phono leads with clip on ferrites, & power, phono & digital leads shielded with copper foil, spurred on by a MartinT comment when I said By now I would have thought the law of diminishing returns would have started to apply. The reply from MartinT That never seems to happen. I've experienced the same surprise many times over over! so I pressed on & yes the digital elements including Caiman SEG50 with Dorado 3 also DVD, CD, Virgin HD Tivo box have all improved, yesterday I shortened the as bought & collected from eBay 2m OTA QUAD 57'S mains leads to 1m then gave them the copper foil treatment, yet another improvement. Even if my ears could not resolve these all around improvements the TV picture is now so good the that the 4k picture is not a lot better than the normal one. The picture has got more definition with each step, it's surprising to see how many pin sharp details are revealed... |
|
|
|
Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 7, 2024 22:52:43 GMT
Noise is the enemy for sure Palace. Reducing it, is a hobby on it own.
Keep up the good work..
|
|
|
|
Post by petea on Feb 8, 2024 8:49:30 GMT
Would there be any benefit to you of putting the P10 'downstream' of the P12 (maybe even the P3 as well) do you think? Or is the output 'noise' associated with the regeneration?
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 8:56:22 GMT
Would there be any benefit to you of putting the P10 'downstream' of the P12 (maybe even the P3 as well) do you think? Or is the output 'noise' associated with the regeneration? I thought about that, Pete, but the noise is part of the regeneration in the older P10, caused by the imperfect sinewave synthesiser and, I guess, an older design of tracking amplifier. By the way, regulation is superb, there is no problem with holding up the power voltage during high demand from the power amp, and that will improve further now. The P3 is considerably less noisy and does a great job, the new P12 should match it. In any case, I've traded the P10 in now, so will have to ship it off once I have the P12 in place. |
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Feb 8, 2024 11:13:34 GMT
Think seriously about a Schuko version... Black of course |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 11:46:05 GMT
I've got the P12 up, running and configured. Some burn-in until I can heave it over to the music room later. It's incredibly heavy for its size, but only half that of the P10.  |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 13:04:40 GMT
Think seriously about a Schuko version... Black of course No, it would require me to change the plugs on all my cables (at considerable cost) and render them incompatible with anything else. This way, they are universal and no questions would be asked by any fire inspector should the worst happen. Silver is so far superior in appearance that I will henceforth ignore any such crazy suggestions |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 16:03:54 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by SteveC on Feb 8, 2024 16:52:48 GMT
I can hear a loud sigh from Ruth, as, once again, you drag her away from the jewellers window! 😉
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 17:39:43 GMT
I can hear a loud sigh from Ruth, as, once again, you drag her away from the jewellers window! 😉 LOL - it's all about balance. She gets her jewellery |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 19:55:47 GMT
The P12 sounded very tight but a little lacking in colour and vibrancy when I hooked it into the system late this afternoon. I could hear it loosen up into a few songs and left Tara Labs running while I broke for dinner. Back now and it has improved in just that short time. It's now outperforming the P10 in bass clout, fine detail and soundstage while the dynamics remain outstanding. I don't think it's going to need much burn-in at all.
Settings: sinewave output, 235V output voltage (input is 236V), set for tight regulation, phase optimised at 6. Output 4 (high current) is set for delayed-on and connected to the power amp, all the other outputs are set to always on. It's sitting on 4 Black Ravioli Big Pads and I have 4 Schramm weights on top (never could use weights on the huge P10).
Power draw at idle is 86W, input distortion is 1.8% and output distortion is 0.1%. The load factor is 10% so there is headroom to spare.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 9, 2024 21:55:51 GMT
For reasons now lost in multiple changes in the past, I found that the P10 had an SR Orange fuse in the power cable but an SR Red in the rear panel. Silly me. So I've been running the P12 so far with the inferior SR Red fuse and the system is singing like never before.
Regardless, I can't allow such a mismatch to continue so I found an SR Orange out there (you can still find some on eBay) to swap out for the Red in the rear panel. I should have it in a few days' time.
Meanwhile, I can't stop playing music.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 10, 2024 20:20:38 GMT
The SR Orange didn't arrive today, but the system is sounding phenomenal with just the SR Red in the P12. Further vindication, as if I needed it, of how essential regenerated power is in a system. I simply would not be without it.
What the P12 brings to the system is an even calmer disposition, darker and deeper soundstage, fantastic bass power and punch and attack. Oh, and the fine resolution of treble detail is incredible.
It's starting to pull further away from the venerable old P10. The King is dead, long live the King!
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 12, 2024 18:24:08 GMT
The SR Orange fuse arrived and is in place in the P12's rear panel. The outcome is an immediate uplift in clarity and attack, even before any burn-in, over the SR Red (which is 3 generations older).
EDIT: I'm leaving the whole system running Tara Labs until the weekend. Then I can assess what I have this early in 2024.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Feb 12, 2024 20:38:00 GMT
Bonkers
and more to come I bet
Bonkers
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 14, 2024 15:21:46 GMT
Interestingly, things weren't sounding at all bad over the Christmas break, but the changes I've made just recently have moved the system in the same upwards direction. I will take some credit for this, it's not all accidental. I've learned a lot in the last three years about digital replay and done a lot of thinking about where to remove bottlenecks in sound quality.
The two Uptone JS-2 power supplies are remarkable in removing noise from the clock power supplies and how this has impacted the sound. Of course choke regulation makes sense for sensitive clocks, but I had not investigated this aspect until recently. I am extremely pleased with them.
The P12 regenerator has replaced the venerable P10 and does things better in a smaller chassis. Lower noise, stiffer power with lower impedance are what it brings. The improvement in sound again is rather surprising and more than I had expected. It provides rigid power to the power amp in a fuss-free manner, using minimal power and creating little heat.
The system is now sounding very unlike most hi-fi digital systems. It doesn't sound like old-school analogue either. The delivery is powerful, potent and vivid. It's more real than before and it gets even more from my wonderful speakers. There are interesting things heard in all manner of music played.
It's hard to believe this is streaming.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Feb 14, 2024 15:27:13 GMT
Do the right thing and get good stuff with bonuses !
More weirdness
Reading in various places about Bubble and mConnect
A couple of people at least say Bubble is more *analogue* sounding
More say it sounds better than mConnect
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Feb 14, 2024 15:35:36 GMT
I'm really happy with Bubble, it sounds great and it's been reliable for me. The developer cares and listens to feedback in the XDA forum. I have optimised it and turned everything off (like broadcasting itself) to keep the network traffic down. It's a great DLNA controller.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Feb 14, 2024 17:08:52 GMT
Be good to have a Dummy's Guide to Bubble
Looked but can't find
|
|
