|
|
Post by dsjr on Apr 7, 2016 10:59:49 GMT
Don't just single Dave out. He's the only one to stick his head above the parapet to put a differing point of view. The other party who has a huge range of accessories has stayed totally out of this, yet he's the one with more to gain from loaning a few choice bits and bobs out as possible 'loss leaders' maybe..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 11:36:22 GMT
Don't just single Dave out. He's the only one to stick his head above the parapet to put a differing point of view. The other party who has a huge range of accessories has stayed totally out of this, yet he's the one with more to gain from loaning a few choice bits and bobs out as possible 'loss leaders' maybe.. I'm sure DaveC is big enough to speak for himself ..... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 13:13:34 GMT
All this "dicussion" is not very amicable is it?
The loan schemes for various manufacturers are still running, just not here.
The admins that run the forum, that we are all guests of, have made a decision.
It's as simple as that?
You can still borrow the equipment.
You can still talk about the equipment.
Not that much of a big change really?
|
|
|
|
Post by jazzbones on Apr 7, 2016 15:11:40 GMT
A throw away remark on another forum I occasionally read said this would all end in tears; looks like it has?
Ron, I don't understand. No 'tears' from anyone who used it as the scheme worked and allowed people to try stuff for good or bad, that they wouldn't have tried otherwise as cash up front would have been demanded and it would have been SALE or return, not LOAN AND return, as the loan scheme is! Did you ever lay out over a grand of your hard saved dosh on that phono stage you were interested in? If you have, I'm sure you're delighted with it, but what if you hadn't been? Would you have had to beg to return it for a refund, or would you have been told to shove it as it was a private build talked about on the relevant forum I believe? Borrowing it first would have only cost you the carriage both ways and you wouldn't have felt obligated to buy it if there were doubts as to its suitability... That's why I cheekily offered you the loan of a Phono 2/PSU a few months ago, so you'd have had some form of reference - at no obligation - away from the rather dated and noisy Naim input cards I believe you were still using. You vociferously declined the offer and gave me good reason for doing so, which I took on the chin as manfully as I could. I'm not having a go, but I resent any possible gloating, just because other trade members here didn't want to loan anything out for others to try at no obligation.Apologies, but I felt I needed to say this.
You use the adjective Vociferous: Oxford dictionary says, Noisy, clamorous, loud and insistent. In describing my saying NO to the NVA phono stage, I have never hidden my distaste for the man behind the product (I'm not alone on this) but, also, I have never knocked the product itself! As for 'gloating', thats your interpretation but as there is two sides to the whole concept of this loan scheme I stood with the people who regarded it as advertising, promotion and shilling of a product no matter how it was clothed. You have conveniently forgotten how you were accused and slagged off by your current paymaster for popping up and telling all how good Rega was... guess who the first person to defend you was?
I ended up buying a Leema Acoustics Elements Ultra phonostage after much conversation with the manufacturer, via phone and email. I got it in writing that if I was not happy with the product they would willingly give me a full refund, can't ask more than that. Leading on from this, you only knew about my quest for a phonostage, circa £1,000.00p from perusing the AudioFlat forum wherein I asked for help, as a result you sent me an email dated Wedneday, December 02, 2015 5:21PM, which read, and I quote in full:
Moderated as shared private email
NOT transcribing what was said on one forum to another.
Bringing this to a much needed end, I would suggest that you revisit your words: Vociferous and Gloating and the use thereof towards me!
PS my Naim cards where never noisy or hissy inspite of near field listening, only bettered by Ryan Sound Lab cards but I wanted more, and got flexibility.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Apr 7, 2016 17:18:25 GMT
 ! |
|
|
|
Post by pre65 on Apr 7, 2016 17:30:44 GMT
! I see Dave has deleted his original reply. Posting private E-mails on a public forum is a dastardly thing to do, VERY , VERY bad form.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 17:54:20 GMT
I also don't think it's "on" to post private emails either. Nevertheless I do appreciate Jazzbones honesty and courage in speaking up*
I didn't see Dave's reply but I think his emoticon says enough. Can't we take a leaf out of Wonky's book and appreciate what we still do have? There are real people involved here and I feel for them:
Three owners of the forum who do this for no financial gain and will never keep everyone happy.
DSJR who only stepped in to operate this because Kaz disappeared after making the offer.
The rest of us who have varying views and will probably never agree.
As it stands, we have a compromise. No threads which anyone can take as selling, but loan scheme is still there via PM. Why isn't everyone happy with that? Sure it's disappointing others wouldn't join in, but it seems everyone has been accommodated to an extent. There are people starving, dying in civil wars and being locked up and tortured. Is this really sufficiently injurious to anyone to deserve such high emotion. I'm glad I'm not an admin, that's all I can say.
On that note, I'm going to bow out of any further comments on this whole episode as I feel it's not only getting circular, but the circles are ever-decreasing.
*Edit: Ahem! just to remove any doubt, I was referring to his opposition to the loan scheme, NOT his post about DSJR. Whilst I disagree with him, at least he's owned up to his stance, unlike others.
|
|
ynwan
Rank: Trio
Posts: 185 
|
Post by ynwan on Apr 7, 2016 18:48:30 GMT
! I can't pretend I'm surprised that this scheme has ended, more by the quantity of acrimonious comment. I am rather sad to read of DSJR's email bitching though I see it's not without unintentional irony. Dave, no doubt you will disbelieve this, but I didn't actually have anything to do with your ban from the AudioFlat forum (though I didn't disagree with it) and it was all done and dusted by the time I knew. |
|
myles
Rank: Trio
Posts: 153
|
Post by myles on Apr 7, 2016 19:27:03 GMT
I'm not quite sure how it has all come to this but it's pretty bad form on the part of jazzbones, quoting private mail from another user. I wonder how many have made note of that, thinking twice before corresponding direct with him for fear of the mail being used in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Apr 7, 2016 19:48:52 GMT
ynwan, I cared enough about whom I regarded as an old friend of thirty five years standing to let my guard drop by private email when I thought he was going to blindly fork out more than a grand on something he'd seemingly not compared to half price alternatives (I mentioned two), but I was very wrong as it's obviously none of my business and I apologised in my reply to the email he sent back to me. He went off and bought something totally different and I've now paid the online price for the exchange. As for your forum, I was surprised that a cable *type* you rather disliked and made no bones about saying so I recall, was used as a mule to test your 'added magnets' theory and it was an interesting topic for you to post about, so why not share across to the HFS forum as NVA SC/SSC was mentioned as I seem to remember. Ah well, no use crying over spilled and now very sour milk and it's now far too late for bridges to be re-built.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinch on Apr 7, 2016 19:58:20 GMT
I opened this thread to offer my thoughts on the passing of the loan scheme, and to give other members an opportunity to do the same. It seems have gone way off course now, though, and to be getting somewhat ugly. I'm not sure what further purpose it's serving.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Apr 7, 2016 20:00:35 GMT
We may close the thread if it carries on people bashing. Hopefully people will calm down
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Apr 7, 2016 20:11:49 GMT
Just for clarity, John has removed the private e-mail posting. It's just not on to quote private communications in public, whatever the justification.
|
|
ynwan
Rank: Trio
Posts: 185
|
Post by ynwan on Apr 7, 2016 21:55:52 GMT
DSJR, you've made your bed as far as I'm concerned and I hope it gives you comfort.
I don't know what relevance it has here, none that I can see; but as you mention it, the whole point of said thread you refer to is that it had to use a cable with a steel core - the reasons for this are all made quite clear in the thread. As you suggest though, and as found previously, said cable was found to be the limiting factor.
|
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Apr 7, 2016 22:43:18 GMT
OK gents, this is turning into people raking up arguments of old and of other places. Stuff like that belongs in the past and in somewhere other than The Audio Standard, so if you want to continue with that, then take it elsewhere please.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 11:52:08 GMT
hmmmm, so I have kept buttoned up until now and thought I would let the dust lie.
Personally I am disappointed that the loan scheme was dropped but I can fully understand why and ultimately it is the forum leaders/owners right to do as they please. I am sure they were getting a lot of hassle from certain individuals and it just became too much of a hassle, and I for one appreciate and understand that.
I am also disappointed in those trades/businesses that didn't take up the opportunity to join the loan scheme, I personally think it couldn't have brought them any harm to have joined and especially if they were putting the pressure on the leaders of this forum to close it down as that in its own right is unfair, but I doubt we'll ever fully know the truth.
Maybe one day it'll come back but until that day I feel we are all losing out somewhat.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Apr 20, 2016 12:00:16 GMT
If you speak to some trade people there are loans to be had.
I became a heretic and dare to think my Isobariks can be improved on. See the Aurum thread
|
|
|
|
Post by Stratmangler on Apr 21, 2016 10:46:18 GMT
I don't see what the problem is with the NVA loan scheme closing on TAS.
Why can't NVA run a loan scheme from their own web presence? Would that have something to do with the NVA owner having pissed potential buyers off with his pleasantries on various forums over the years? You reap what you sow....
Having witnessed posts implying that the loan scheme was TAS's scheme, when that was never the case (it was always NVA's scheme), it's apparent that there has been too much blurring of lines.
At one point TAS did come across to me as the marketing wing of NVA.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Apr 21, 2016 13:14:53 GMT
Sorry Strat, I don't believe that's *quite* the case at all, as nobody else was interested in adding to it and that's why it was closed here. Sure, RD asked if it would be possible to open a loan scheme and it's my understanding the mods jumped at the chance. If MCRU had made available a couple of choice items from his range for people to try, for example, I'm sure he'd have gained financially from it, and increased his reputation over his unfortunate standing on his final months on AOS for a start - in my opinion... NVA does run the loan scheme from the related HFS forum. I feel however, that this forum 'place' is a great place to live, generally with greater tolerance, as self moderation seems to mainly be the order of the day (I think it was me who suggested to him that jazzbones joined here - so much for that one then...  ) and may I say it was a pleasure to 'meet' a few of you on borrowing and passing on the NVA loan gear. TAS may well have seemed to be a marketing wing of NVA PURELY because nobody else wanted to, or could be arsed to, join in and share some of the fun and THAT'S why the loan scheme was brought to an end. I just felt the need to say all this, as it was me, and not RD, who was administering the loan scheme and by and large, he came onto me if there was an issue with non-review-posting and so on. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 14:09:10 GMT
I don't see what the problem is with the NVA loan scheme closing on TAS. Why can't NVA run a loan scheme from their own web presence? Would that have something to do with the NVA owner having pissed potential buyers off with his pleasantries on various forums over the years? You reap what you sow.... Having witnessed posts implying that the loan scheme was TAS's scheme, when that was never the case (it was always NVA's scheme), it's apparent that there has been too much blurring of lines. At one point TAS did come across to me as the marketing wing of NVA. The majority of this post sounds like sour grapes and that you have an issue NVA and RD. As far as I am aware the loan scheme was open to anyone, it was just that NVA was the only company willing to partake which is a shame because I agree with Dave that had others signed up their would almost certainly have benefited financially and it would have offered the forum members more options and opportunities. Yes it became NVA only but that wasn't from the want of trying to get others on board! |
|
!
