|
Post by pinkie on Dec 30, 2015 10:47:28 GMT
No fear of the love, harmony, peace and goodwill to all men, being confined to just one thread then Chris
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2015 11:33:17 GMT
Nice, Steve. Why don't you create a blog post and transfer those photos there?
|
|
steve
Rank: Trio
Posts: 206
|
Post by steve on Dec 30, 2015 11:50:42 GMT
OK I'll post a build sequence over the next few days.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Dec 30, 2015 12:16:02 GMT
That would be great. It looks like a bit of a beast Steve.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Dec 30, 2015 12:41:53 GMT
Great!
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Dec 30, 2015 12:54:44 GMT
Ive heard valve amps sounding incredible, mediocre and awful. Same with transistor amps. I'm more interested in the reasons why outcomes might be variable, which is the point of the OP. I've had some good info on that score, Valves and SS real have their devotees, but I really have no preference. For me it depends on the amp and what it's paired with. Much common sense here, I think - well said Andrew. I've settled on a transistor set up that I like but I also frequently plug in the old Radford. I enjoy them both tremendously and they are both lovely for the job I expect them each to do. Likewise, I would no more take a 2 seat convertible to Ikea to buy furniture than use a Luton Transit to drive the Amalfi Coast road!
|
|
|
Post by pre65 on Dec 30, 2015 13:06:15 GMT
I hope to hear that, and a very special pentode push pull amp at the next Audio-Talk fest, an event well worth visiting if one can spare the time.
The amp that Steve shows in the last post is the one I refer too.
It's been quite a while in the development stages, and by all accounts each stage has been a step forward.
Well done Steve.
|
|
|
Post by pre65 on Dec 30, 2015 13:08:28 GMT
I think it's time we see more project photos, Philip. Your builds are always a good read. I'm away from home due to a family bereavement, so not for a while.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Dec 30, 2015 13:10:19 GMT
I'm really sorry to hear that Philip.
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Dec 30, 2015 13:11:47 GMT
When I get my tape decks fixed I'll compare my Valve to SS Revox
When I last played them many years ago the valve G36 sounded better than the B77 SS
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 15:41:32 GMT
Well what an unusual thread. One accurately answers a technical question and look at the calamity! If anyone can point out a factual error in my original reply I'd be interested to know. Anyone want to claim that zero feedback SET's are not in fact the worst for speaker control and flatness of response into a varying speaker load? A few measurements would soon show the facts. The whole world of hi fi is getting beyond a sick joke when 100 years of scientific advancement in electronics, well documented in numerous textbooks and white papers etc, can be written off by some bod saying "yeah but me mates got a SET and it sounds tight in the bass to me so everything in science is bollocks".... and they are taken seriously!! There are many things in this world that can be measured and put into order of best to worst in whatever context. Amplifiers are one of them. Now the measurements tell only part of the story of course. This is where our ears come in! BUT, in terms of saying things like which has the lowest distortion, the greatest grip on the speaker, the flattest frequency response into a range of loads etc, these are readily measurable and subject to the laws of physics. So readily measurable that the likes of Stereophile routinely does it. There is no place for personal opinion etc in this. Facts is facts. It's a good thing that medical research and space exploration seem rather more immune to Chinese whispers based on internet threads, something a bloke down the pub told me, what me mate Derek who is a bricklayer told me etc and rather more dependent on the knowledge and expertise of doctors and rocket scientists. Due to the usual idiots being so predictable I'll repeat YET AGAIN that I am not a "all amps sound the same" or "measurements tell all" objectivist! Objective measurements and scientific rigour are the only way to get to a stage where an amp is designed and built and can then be listened to though! Obviously if the measurements say it has 5% THD and is only flat from 100Hz to 10KHz then it isn't hi fi and is a bad amplifier, whether it sounds "nice" to some people or not it patently is going to sound totally inaccurate and therefore falls at the first hurdle of the premise for High Fidelity! Back to the drawing board... Since some seem to have trouble reading things I've said in the past, I'll point out that as someone who, apparently and allegedly is anti valve.... my latest product is a valve hybrid phono stage in which all the gain comes from the valves.... Anyone seriously interested can be considered for a try out of it (MC only). It has been described recently as similar-ish to the Aurorasound Vida... but better.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Dec 30, 2015 16:05:40 GMT
Jez, first of all calm down, eh? I think someone earlier suggested that there are many different definitions of 'better'. As an engineer, yours is very likely to be defined by different criteria than mine or anyone else's as an end user. Like it or not, that is another fact. And as you say, facts is facts.
Serious question: Tell me, do Stereophile only recommend one amp - the best one?
|
|
|
Post by John on Dec 30, 2015 16:38:00 GMT
I heard a few valve amps mostly DIY I really liked Andrew Randall amp. It worked well with his speakers These days I am a solid state guy (I used to have an all valve based system) and I can still enjoy a good valve based system. Today I was listening to a Temple Audio Prototype based on the Monos and the sound was as good as Martin system. A very different approach to music playback but stunning results
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Dec 30, 2015 16:53:49 GMT
Apologies for starting civil war yet again! All I wanted to draw attention to is how important the amp's output impedance is when driving the kind of speakers we most often use these days - 4 to 6 ohm roller-coaster loads - and what this can do to the speaker response, as well as ported-speaker bass quality.
To try to redress this a little, I have been mightily impressed with some mid-product-range Icon Audio models, which sounded lively, musical, clear and clean and with absolutely NO soggy bass into the SHL5, which sounded pretty grim with a PrimaLuna apparently. I have no experience with SET's as the speakers I favour aren't efficient enough.
What can valve-lovers learn from all this? TRY WITH YOUR OWN SPEAKERS before buying, is my suggestion.
P.S. My Revox G36 hummed badly and the transport was shagged, but I've heard lovely recordings made with a good one. My high speed B77 was a masterpiece though, playing copy-masters of various things I'd collected. Correct set-up is vital for either as response errors are clearly audible with analogue tape.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 17:10:43 GMT
Perfectly calm old boy Just don't like having a lifetimes experience being misquoted/twisted by those of mischievous bent.... and certain agenda Even your own last comment appears to hint that there should be some particular amp that measures best and therefore Stereophile (and myself!?) should recommend only that... which is precisely what I'm NOT saying nor have I ever said. Once an amp manages a minimum of say 0.1% THD, 15hz - 30KHz frequency response, damping factor of 16 etc, not a "high bar" to reach to say the least these days (and met or exceeded by various golden era valve amps from Leak and Radford to name but two), then an amp has sufficient technical competency for its measurable faults to have very little effect on the sound. It may then be judged on its subjective sound quality and subjectively tuned for best sound. This is basically my method. If an amp can't meet even those fairly slack specs then its sound WILL be adversely affected by things that are readily measurable. Some may like the sound of 5% THD and top end rounded off.... it gives that mellow old fashioned sound, syrupy, smooth as teflon coated velvet etc sound (from whatever technology) but it isn't hi fi so it isn't a good amp. It's a sound effects generator. Seen those guitar amp modelling software plugins? They digitally recreate the distortion profile etc of old amps like a Vox AC30. The same could be done with a plugin to mimic the sound of a poor hi fi amp with 5% thd etc and in fact there are such plugins to try and replicate the sound of reel to reel tape recorders being taken slightly into the red.... These are part of the creative process when used in the generation of original music but have no part to play in its high quality reproduction. Imagine playing a Mozart string quartet through a Vox AC30 emulator plugin... My above comments apply to all amps no matter what technology they are based on of course!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 18:15:06 GMT
There is no need to call each other names just because you prefer one topology over the other! Absolutely. Next thing we know the OED will have to add a new word: TOPOLOGISM! Try saying that after a few drinks
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 18:36:06 GMT
I should add that I don't set out to achieve the most "accurate" rendition of what the engineer heard. As I have different ears and probably have varying tastes to the engineer, I'm just not interested. I simply want a sound that I enjoy. There is far more to sound than frequency response and I'm sure far more than we can ever hope to measure in its entirety.
|
|
|
Post by tony on Dec 30, 2015 18:51:41 GMT
I heard a few valve amps mostly DIY I really liked Andrew Randall amp. It worked well with his speakers These days I am a solid state guy (I used to have an all valve based system) and I can still enjoy a good valve based system. Today I was listening to a Temple Audio Prototype based on the Monos and the sound was as good as Martin system. A very different approach to music playback but stunning results John, If you can expand on this. I have been using Temple monos on battery for a couple of years and have yet to hear anything that betters what I hear for me. I put a nice pre in front of mine and they sang!!!! I have a some nice valve kel 84 monos/power amp....the Temples just sound right to me! Sorry to tread cap but IMHO well executed digital amps are the elephant in the room.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 19:02:06 GMT
I should add that I don't set out to achieve the most "accurate" rendition of what the engineer heard. As I have different ears and probably have varying tastes to the engineer, I'm just not interested. I simply want a sound that I enjoy. There is far more to sound than frequency response and I'm sure far more than we can ever hope to measure in its entirety. A perfectly reasonable outlook on things.... but not hi fi...... High Fidelity is, strictly speaking, about the recreation of the original event, "the closest approach to the original sound" as Quad once said in their ads, not making it sound as you would prefer it to sound! Otherwise we may as well use graphic eq, "hall effect" or "jazz club effect" DSP as found on all in one midi systems! This then makes a mockery of all the effort that has gone in over many years of research by many people into making speakers low colouration, amps low distortion etc. You may perhaps not like the way a real live violin sounds but whether or not you like it that is what it sounds like.... "There is far more to sound than frequency response and I'm sure far more than we can ever hope to measure in its entirety" Agreed. But I hope one day we can measure things which allude us now and so make even better hi fi's
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 19:12:43 GMT
I don't disagree with any of that. I think it's important to be honest with yourself over what you're seeking. For me it's only enjoyment. I can get equivalent but different forms of enjoyment from valves and transistors. If I had to choose one over the other, it would be the best I've heard of solid state, but that could change if I hear even more enjoyable valve amps
|
|