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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 13:30:14 GMT
Ah, I see what you're doing, you're getting fusion mixed up with Jazz-Rock, the two are totally separate. Try 'Queen - Jazz'. or 'Bowie - Station to Station'. |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 13:31:10 GMT
You listen to Steely Dan, so you know what Jazz chords and rhythms sound like. They use them a lot, most of the time in fact. Both Becker and Fagen went through college listening to the pioneering Jazz greats. The chords the players use on this Alquin album are straight major or minor. Jazz isn't straight major or minor. Steely Dan is Jazz-Rock, because the Becker horns spiral. |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 13:34:04 GMT
Steely Dan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Steely Dan
Becker & Fagen of Steely Dan at Pori Jazz 2007.jpg
Steely Dan performing in 2007
Background information
Origin Annandale-on-Hudson, New York, United States
Genres Rock, jazz rock, soft rock[1]
Years active 1972–1981, 1993–present
Labels ABC, MCA, Giant, Reprise, Warner Bros.
Associated acts New York Rock and Soul Revue, Dukes of September Rhythm Revue, Jay and the Americans, Doobie Brothers, Toto, Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour
Website steelydan.com
Members Walter Becker
Donald Fagen
Past members Jeff "Skunk" Baxter
Denny Dias
Jim Hodder
David Palmer
Royce Jones
Michael McDonald
Jeff Porcaro
Steely Dan is an American jazz rock band
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 13:35:51 GMT
The thing about genres is they are okay for people that like.... well; genre's. I mean to say what the hell is Math Rock? Post Rock? Steam Punk? Alquin are just good, end of story.  |
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 17, 2015 13:53:18 GMT
So you have never heard jazz music that has a tune?
This calls into question whether you are able to seriously discuss it, and so-called jazz rock at all, I would have thought.
With respect, I think you would need to listen to some more jazz!
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Post by John on Sept 17, 2015 15:11:13 GMT
Guess I do not want to be rude but if you read the article you will see is it clearly talking about Jazz rock
First of all just because Queen call the album Jazz does not mean it is Jazz rock. I hear nothing which would make it described this way. (By the way I like Queen and the album you chosen). Dreamers Ball is using some jazz/blues inspired rhythm on it but that is as close as it gets. Perhaps you could explain why you think this is a Jazz rock album.
Jazz rock will have more extended chords with solos often based around the chord changes rather than say just a pentatonic scale solo
Typical Jazz rock artists would include artist like Al Di Meola, Larry Carlton, Alan Holdsworth, Firemerchants, Jeff Beck, Brand X, Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Gamalon, 7for4, Spaced Out etc
Math rock might include bands like Watchtower and Behold the Arctobus where there might apply maths based principles its a genre, sometimes it might also be called Tech Metal. I used to listen to this in the past, good when I was young and had a lot of energy and love for the intensity of this type of music. These days I cannot really listen to it. I need to hear the melody and phrasing.
Like Chris I find narrowing things to genres a bit limiting but understand why it can be a necessary evil
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Post by Stratmangler on Sept 17, 2015 15:19:50 GMT
Probably a misnomer like when people talk about 'blind-dogs'. Another good one is 'disabled parking'. Jazz-Rock is fundamentally different from Jazz in that it has a tune. Listen to 'Queen - Jazz'. In which the band explode the myth that the two are in some tenuous way related. People around here (UK) don't refer to "blind dogs", but we know what's meant by the term. We call them guide dogs. In no way is it a misnomer to call them "blind dogs" as the term is easily understood. The same with disabled parking - I know several people who have suffered injuries that make it difficult for them to walk any great distance, and they're registered as being disabled. The parking spaces are for such people who lack the general mobility of the bulk of the population, so again it is not a misnomer. Now this bit about Jazz not carrying a tune is, to be brutally frank, utter bollocks! And to say that Jazz-Rock does is doubly so. You want to try listening to some Jazz - I suggest you start with The Dave Brubeck Quartet's "Time Out" album. Then try telling me there are no tunes on the album. And, seeing as you mentioned it in an earlier post, I put Queen's "Jazz" album on earlier. It's a good collection of songs, and I quite enjoyed it. I'm still trying to fathom out how Fat Bottomed Girls, or Bicycle Race, or Don't Stop Me Now or the rest of the songs on the album fall into a category "In which the band explode the myth that the two are in some tenuous way related". They don't, and the band wouldn't lay claim to it either. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 17, 2015 16:14:23 GMT
Try Shostakovich's Jazz Suite No.1 opening. Is it jazz or a classical waltz? It sounds like both to me. Fusion!  |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:29:51 GMT
Guess I do not want to be rude but if you read the article you will see is it clearly talking about Jazz rock First of all just because Queen call the album Jazz does not mean it is Jazz rock. I hear nothing which would make it described this way. (By the way I like Queen and the album you chosen). Dreamers Ball is using some jazz/blues inspired rhythm on it but that is as close as it gets. Perhaps you could explain why you think this is a Jazz rock album. Jazz rock will have more extended chords with solos often based around the chord changes rather than say just a pentatonic scale solo Typical Jazz rock artists would include artist like Al Di Meola, Larry Carlton, Alan Holdsworth, Firemerchants, Jeff Beck, Brand X, Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Gamalon, 7for4, Spaced Out etc Math rock might include bands like Watchtower and Behold the Arctobus where there might apply maths based principles its a genre, sometimes it might also be called Tech Metal. I used to listen to this in the past, good when I was young and had a lot of energy and love for the intensity of this type of music. These days I cannot really listen to it. I need to hear the melody and phrasing. Like Chris I find narrowing things to genres a bit limiting but understand why it can be a necessary evil I feel that if Queen called the album 'Jazz' they meant the 'Hoover Jazz', 'Honda Jazz', or 'Jazz Mags'. That's part of the problem here gentlemen, the word Jazz has more than one meaning!! Jazz, means; snazzy, pacy, risque. When used to describe Jazz-Rock it means the above, not tuneless meanderings that assault the senses with no meaning other than to show how 'clever' the players are. Jazz-Rock has absolutely no connection to Jazz. |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:33:00 GMT
Probably a misnomer like when people talk about 'blind-dogs'. Another good one is 'disabled parking'. Jazz-Rock is fundamentally different from Jazz in that it has a tune. Listen to 'Queen - Jazz'. In which the band explode the myth that the two are in some tenuous way related. People around here (UK) Another misnomer. I only have the one residense and it is in England, there is not actually such a place as Uk. It's an Americanism for those too lazy to type 7 letters. England is not 'united' with Scotland far from it. England has a Queen, not a king. The term Jazz-Rock is a semantic phrase not a musical one. |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:34:15 GMT
So you have never heard jazz music that has a tune? This calls into question whether you are able to seriously discuss it, and so-called jazz rock at all, I would have thought. With respect, I think you would need to listen to some more jazz! I dislike Jazz intensely ChrisB, I listen to music. |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:37:38 GMT
To call a guide dog a blind dog is incorrect, as the dog has sight.
To call Parking for the Disabled, 'Disabled Parking' is offensive to me, as I am disabled but as an advanced driver; park properly.
'Disabled Parking', indicates erroneously that the parking has been very bad.
Once again semantics you see.
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:38:50 GMT
Try Shostakovich's Jazz Suite No.1 opening. Is it jazz or a classical waltz? It sounds like both to me. Fusion! I'm not fooled by Shostakovitch MartinT, I prefer melody. |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:40:16 GMT
In conclusion gentlemen, I like Steely Dan and Alquin's Jazz-Rock, love and peace to you all.
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 17, 2015 20:40:13 GMT
I just think it's rather disingenuous to describe it as not having a tune or not music. What I am trying to get across is that the term jazz covers such a wide range of types of music that it is ridiculous to make a sweeping statement about it. See the new thread - 'When is jazz not jazz?' |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:42:08 GMT
 More tuneful than Jazz!!! |
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Post by Guest on Sept 17, 2015 20:43:36 GMT
 More tuneful than Jazz. |
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 17, 2015 20:45:18 GMT
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Post by John on Sept 17, 2015 20:54:02 GMT
Gosh what a bunch of statements
First most of Jazz rock is a lot more outside than most jazz. Lets take the most famous Jazz rock band Mahavishnu Orchestra
This is the first live video that comes up when you do a youtube search
Now the same exercise for Miles Davis
I get you do not like Jazz but please stop the sweeping statements
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Post by Stratmangler on Sept 17, 2015 21:00:24 GMT
This is one of my favourite Jazz artists playing some very familiar music from JS Bach, the father of counterpoint harmony.
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