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Post by Tim on Jul 14, 2014 18:59:07 GMT
. . . that wouldn't do for Tim. Oh no, not one little bit! Yeee gads WTF is that . . . !!! No, no, no, no, no . . . just no way would that be allowed in Captain Tidy's living room. (you got me Chris . . . )
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Post by kember on Jul 14, 2014 18:59:28 GMT
The arm sounds great but it looks a little........well, let's say it has a visual style all of it's own, and I rather fear that wouldn't do for Tim. Oh no, not one little bit! Positively agricultural is the term, methinks . But wow does it sound good and cart swapping is a cinch! Depends what Tim wants out of his arm but for sheer musicality, I'd suggest the Trans-Fi. I've only heard better bass from the arm on the Bergmann Sindre. I've had the MusicMaker III, the Ortofon Black MM and a Yamamoto YC-03S on rotation on my 401 and all pack the requisite punch. I've now put the Trans-Fi back on my ClearAudio as it is my best arm and that is my best deck. The 401 is getting my modified 12" Hadcock GH220 - I'll report later on how that gets on. P
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Post by kember on Jul 14, 2014 19:05:38 GMT
If the Trans-Fi doesn't do it for you, how about this - link? I have one of these as well, and it is better executed visually than Vic's arm but about 90% of the performance... P
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Post by Tim on Jul 14, 2014 19:08:15 GMT
Well I have finally decided exactly what to do with my 401, I have a thread running on AoS which I may duplicate here when serious work gets under way. André and Chris have pretty much sussed me anyway, it won't be complete for awhile as I have a full life until next year, but I'm going to do most of the work myself on the 401, with some help from Russ Collinson and Michell. One thing its not going to look like though is 'agricultural' Thanks for the suggestions though guys, but a dockyard crane on my turntable is not a look I am going for.
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Post by walpurgis on Jul 14, 2014 20:41:06 GMT
. . . that wouldn't do for Tim. Oh no, not one little bit! Yeee gads WTF is that . . . !!! No, no, no, no, no . . . just no way would that be allowed in Captain Tidy's living room. (you got me Chris . . . ) Is that one of Vic's TransFi arms?
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 14, 2014 20:44:32 GMT
I do believe it is Geoff
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 14, 2014 20:45:43 GMT
The other thing with this detachable headshell versus fixed headshell thing, is how do you isolate the detrimental sonic effect of a detachable headshell unless all other aspects of the tonearms being compared are identical?
For example, when comparing, say, Martin's Dynavector arm (with a detachable headshell) and an SME V (with a fixed headshell), how could you possibly determine how much 'better' the sonic effect of having a fixed headshell is when there are so many other aspects of the respective designs of said tonearms influencing matters, and ultimately are responsible for how both arms sound?
It's bollocks!
Has anyone ever compared an SME 3009 fixed headshell tonearm against an (otherwise identical) detachable headshell version of the same arm, using the same cartridge and turntable, in the same system?
Only in that type of scenario, where no other variables exist, would it be possible to accurately assess whether any detrimental sonic effect was audible, as a result of the presence of a detachable headshell.
Marco.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 15, 2014 6:18:23 GMT
Has anyone ever compared an SME 3009 fixed headshell tonearm against an (otherwise identical) detachable headshell version of the same arm, using the same cartridge and turntable, in the same system? I'm sure I remember the reviews of the day saying there wasn't much in it. Of course, the detachable version could take a much better headshell than the thin mesh SME one. That's what I ran for a good while in the early days, with an ADC headshell.
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 15, 2014 7:33:44 GMT
Indeed - and in that scenario you'd arguably be improving the performance of the tonearm, especially if a low-compliance cartridge was being used that required some extra mass.
I know from experience that Denon DL-103s can sound fab, in an SME 3009, when fitted with a heavier detachable headshell (one of the Sumikos here being a good example).
Furthermore, your earlier example of comparing a Jelco 250ST (fixed headshell) with a Jelco SA750 (detachable headshell), citing that the latter significantly outperformed the former [which I also agree with, as I've done the comparison], despite it having a detachable headshell, proves that ultimately other aspects of tonearm design matter rather more.
As for 9" or 12" arms, I've yet to hear an example of the latter that notably outperforms (in all areas) my current 9" arm of choice (Ortofon RS-212D), or indeed any other really good 9" arm. Yes, I can hear some sonic benefits with high-quality 12" arms (less overall distortion, which produces a cleaner sound with greater bass authority), but for me it's always at the expense of 'fun factor'.
For me, good 9" arms have a gutsier sound, producing superior sonic alacrity, and ultimately to my ears, a more involving and musically interesting/entertaining listen.
Marco.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 15, 2014 9:18:50 GMT
The other thing with this detachable headshell versus fixed headshell thing, is how do you isolate the detrimental sonic effect of a detachable headshell unless all other aspects of the tonearms being compared are identical? For example, when comparing, say, Martin's Dynavector arm (with a detachable headshell) and an SME V (with a fixed headshell), how could you possibly determine how much 'better' the sonic effect of having a fixed headshell is when there are so many other aspects of the respective designs of said tonearms influencing matters, and ultimately are responsible for how both arms sound? It's bollocks! Has anyone ever compared an SME 3009 fixed headshell tonearm against an (otherwise identical) detachable headshell version of the same arm, using the same cartridge and turntable, in the same system? Only in that type of scenario, where no other variables exist, would it be possible to accurately assess whether any detrimental sonic effect was audible, as a result of the presence of a detachable headshell. Marco. The weakness at the moment is theoretical. As pinky as pointed out with the bending mode measurements attributable to detachable . It may or may not give rise to sonic differences . However , theoretically it is easy - replace the armtube with an identical one but with fix headshell and bobs your uncle . Additonally , my comments on compromise also pertained to the additional wiring and metal work . It is of course easy to get rid of it and therefore compare . You retain the detachable headshell but it is single wired .
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Marco
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Post by Marco on Jul 15, 2014 9:28:33 GMT
Sure... At the end of the day, all that matters is what sounds best to you When it comes to tonearms, my main priority is ensuring that synergy is achieved between it and the partnering cartridge, not whether the headshell is fixed or detachable, although given my penchant for 'vintage' ultra-low compliance cartridges, which require high-mass arms, classic 'J-shaped' Japanese designs are usually what work best. Marco.
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Post by yomanze on Jul 15, 2014 14:28:28 GMT
I have a 10" Helius tonearm sitting in a box, shame I can't mount it on my PL71... I wonder if it offers a bit of what 9" and 12" arms offer.
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Barry
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Post by Barry on Jul 15, 2014 15:46:20 GMT
Has anyone ever compared an SME 3009 fixed headshell tonearm against an (otherwise identical) detachable headshell version of the same arm, using the same cartridge and turntable, in the same system? I used to have both versions of the SME 3009 arm. Unfortunately I never compared their performance using the same cartridge in each. Despite the theoretical disadvantage of arms using a detachable headshell fitting, I continue to use them (I have three) as they are convenient for someone like me who likes to 'dabble' with cartridges. And in the case of the Denon 103 cartridge, allows me to use alternative headshells (the Fidelity Research 5 headshell in this instance).
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Post by yomanze on Jul 15, 2014 15:53:59 GMT
The DL103 prefers lossy arms anyway, which is why it works so great on an SME 3009 with headshell interface and "loose" bearings compared to today's standards. In fact some DL103 users like to slacken off the headshell connector to make things even more lossy!
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Post by John on Jul 15, 2014 15:57:31 GMT
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 15, 2014 17:31:31 GMT
The DL103 prefers lossy arms anyway, which is why it works so great on an SME 3009 with headshell interface and "loose" bearings compared to today's standards. In fact some DL103 users like to slacken off the headshell connector to make things even more lossy! Yup - hence why, when selecting a tonearm, optimising the requirements of the partnering cartridge (whatever those may be) is WAY more important than fretting about fixed or detachable headshells! Marco.
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Post by Greg on Jul 16, 2014 19:39:54 GMT
It all depends on your budget I suppose. It's worth considering something I read recently (can't remember where) that modern pressings are optimised for 9" arms. Sorry, I can't qualify that statement. I currently use an Audiomods arm and love it, above and beyond other Rega derivatives including a Michell TecnoArm. I don't identify the distortion at end of LP tracks and it really has brought new life to my vinyl playback. Geoff Spall who runs the company is a great guy and he provides continued after sal support, so recently, my arm was rebuilt with upgraded parts at no cost other than postage. In my view, this arm is excellent value for money and the customer support is second to none. It really does sound very good. www.audiomods.co.ukGreg PS For once, unusually, I find myself rather in agreement with Marco
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 16, 2014 20:02:01 GMT
But the Rega is a 10"arm!
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 16, 2014 21:00:02 GMT
PS For once, unusually, I find myself rather in agreement with Marco Hey, I guess it's got to happen sometime, Greg! Hope you enjoy the forum. Marco.
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Barry
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Post by Barry on Jul 16, 2014 22:48:28 GMT
But the Rega is a 10"arm! According to vinylengine.com, the effective length of both the RB250 and RB300 arms is 237mm, or 9.33".
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