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Post by Clive on Jun 21, 2015 10:47:09 GMT
My tape decks record the pops and crackles. If they didn't I would suspect the loss of high frequency information. Recording the information is not the same thing as what you know I am on about. I bet you those pops and clicks that you recorded onto the cassette were not in the original recording. So somewhere along the line before they entered the cassette deck they got introduced into the signal path. They could be worse on cassette due to overloading the electronics or saturating the tape.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jun 21, 2015 10:57:50 GMT
FLAC is lossless. Most vinyl ripping programs have the ability to remove extraneous noise. I suspect this would reduce the treble information that was at the same frequency. If they remove something, that is a loss, is it not?That is not the same as saying FLAC is not lossless, it's removal of some nformation after the fact. FLAC is indeed lossless - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC
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Post by stanleyb on Jun 21, 2015 11:22:07 GMT
Many say it is lossless, but I don't believe a bit of it, let alone a word.
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Post by Dave on Jun 21, 2015 11:31:22 GMT
This is a debate which could roll on for ever. FLAC employs an algorithm to compress (and thus manipulate) digital audio data and so purists will always argue that regardless of the claims, the decompressed code can never quite match the original. Personally I don't have an opinion on it as I have better things to occupy my mind, such as listening to music.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 21, 2015 14:25:48 GMT
I don't believe a bit of it, let alone a word.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jun 21, 2015 19:16:17 GMT
I have also noted that F.L.A.C. files seem to have lost vinyl roar and surface noise, something that proves to me that F.L.A.C. is 'not' lossless! What evidence do you have to support this view? If it's stuff you've recorded yourself from vinyl then what was the equipment used, and what was the software used? I still have vinyl roar on recordings of some of the poorer pressings I have, but as the setup and quality of the turntable has improved over time so the level of vinyl roar has diminished greatly, and it's apparent both in playback of records for just listening and also for recording purposes. All of the recordings I do start of as WAV, and are post processed to become FLAC.
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ynwan
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Posts: 185
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Post by ynwan on Jun 21, 2015 19:39:04 GMT
When I have ripped vinyl to digital the noise levels - record noise etc. have remained exactly the same - something would definitely be wrong if they had not (I used a cheap A2D and Audacity).
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Post by Stratmangler on Jun 21, 2015 19:45:53 GMT
When I have ripped vinyl to digital the noise levels - record noise etc. have remained exactly the same - something would definitely be wrong if they had not (I used a cheap A2D and Audacity). Exactly! Which is why I'm intrigued by Xquki's comment.
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ynwan
Rank: Trio
Posts: 185
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Post by ynwan on Jun 21, 2015 19:50:47 GMT
Indeed - these artefacts are all well within the audible spectrum and the format would have to be exceedingly lossy to edit them out.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 21, 2015 20:01:18 GMT
It sounds far more likely that a vinyl noise reduction filter was employed - yuk!
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ynwan
Rank: Trio
Posts: 185
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Post by ynwan on Jun 21, 2015 20:16:27 GMT
Yes, I agree - though that would certainly have an impact beyond just removing surface noise.
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Post by dvh on Jun 21, 2015 20:25:15 GMT
I've never been bored enough to rip vinyl records, or to compare different file formats. I play vinyl less often these days, mainly through laziness, but when I do play it, I generally prefer it to CD or file-based formats. Surface noise doesn't bother me, apart from on one Doors' LP side that looks like someone's dropped some glue in the grooves, and a Todd Rundgren LP which is actually broken where I trod on it (accidentally I hasten to add).
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Post by aurender on Jun 22, 2015 0:48:01 GMT
Ok, opinion on sound: no comment on why.
If I compare the following Cd played on DCS transport, 16/44.1 output to DCS DAC CD ripped to FLAC, stored on Hard disk, 16/44.1 output to DAC CD ripped to FLAC, stored on hard disk, transferred to SSD, 16/44.1 output to DAC
SSD replay sounds "better", hdd next, cd last
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 9:34:05 GMT
Well at lease we have some agreement that the CD ripped to FLAC sounds ''better'' than the CD itself played back.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 11:05:32 GMT
My final word; a 'copy' of anything cannot be 'better' then the original it is physics, not opinion.
Photograph the Mona Lisa for example and photo-shop it and it is not 'better' than the painting. Convert an album to F.L.A.C. and it cannot be better than the record, removing surface noise is a reduction of the original, therefore it is not 'true'.
I don't need to listen to know these claims, it is a matter of simple physics.
That's not to say one cannot 'prefer' some sort of 'reproduction', but it is not 'better'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 11:07:12 GMT
I've never been bored enough to rip vinyl records, or to compare different file formats. I play vinyl less often these days, mainly through laziness, but when I do play it, I generally prefer it to CD or file-based formats. Surface noise doesn't bother me, apart from on one Doors' LP side that looks like someone's dropped some glue in the grooves, and a Todd Rundgren LP which is actually broken where I trod on it (accidentally I hasten to add). You are an audiophile sir.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 11:13:17 GMT
I prefer cassettes, but they are not better than records I would wish to challenge that statement. Cassette has no pops and clicks, a wider dynamic range, and if you got a good deck and metal tapes you couldn't tell the difference between CD and cassette playback. You cannot actually challenge my 'preference', you are confusing 'better' with 'prefer' again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 11:16:14 GMT
FLAC is lossless. Most vinyl ripping programs have the ability to remove extraneous noise. If you 'remove' something, it is lost!!!
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Post by Clive on Jun 22, 2015 11:23:45 GMT
FLAC is lossless. Most vinyl ripping programs have the ability to remove extraneous noise. If you 'remove' something, it is lost!!!Nothing is removed, it's compressed just like a zip file. A FLAC can be totally reconstructed to be bit for bit the same as a WAV. It really is the same. If a FLAC sounds any different it's due the processing in real-time needed to play it. Of course if there is editing on the file that's a different matter.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jun 22, 2015 11:32:20 GMT
It's a pity it wasn't! I suggest everyone just walks away from what is rapidly developing into a circular argument.
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