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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 13:09:33 GMT
This sounds like fun, please tell us how you get on.
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 23, 2015 14:14:20 GMT
Benchmark claim the THX technology which reduces crossover distortion to "vanishingly low" levels accounts for the sweetness and detail of sound in the AHB2 - so I guess a good class A design like this is going to have similarly low distortion levels in that region, and a similar natural open sound. Fancy seeing how the 2 amps compare? Do you have any measurements for your build of the SECA? Colin Are you able to give Richard any advice on the distortion levels of your 40W amp that I just built?
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Post by MartinT on Jul 23, 2015 14:34:52 GMT
Don't get too preoccupied with distortion figures, they are notoriously not great as a measurement of an amplifier's goodness.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 23, 2015 14:40:40 GMT
It would be interesting to know James but it is not normal to have measurements for one form of distortion isolated. Crossover distortion in your amp should be zero - well very very low, because with class A you do not have devices switching on and off in the crossover area. It might have quite high thd (relatively) but still sound as "sweet" in the midrange, if that particular aspect of distortion is low
And yes Martin - I am well aware that simply because an amplifier measures well on one parameter it is no guarantee of a great sound. To design a good amplifier you need to balance a number of measurements.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 23, 2015 14:44:01 GMT
the other interesting point on distortion, that I learned during this amps design phase, was the significance of "inaudible" elements. Frequently Owen would pick up a distortion component in the audio band that he couldn't identify the cause of , only to see it mirrored at much higher frequencies (I am fairly sure he said megahertz), and fixing the cause of the distortion at frequencies way above the audio band, eliminated the "ghost" distortion in the audio frequency.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 23, 2015 14:47:24 GMT
RFI / MBI can cause havoc with an amplifier's performance. That's why I do so much to eliminate it from my house.
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 23, 2015 14:55:17 GMT
Yes I agree with all the above posts, very interesting to have the designers input.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 13:13:36 GMT
Freq Response 5.0Hz = 200KHz Flat Freq Response 1.0Hz = 250KHz -3dB Phase change 20Hz - 20KHz 2deg Damping Factor 2000+ Output 40W RMS Min 8R Output 61W RMS Min 4R Input 1.2V full output Distortion THD before clipping less than 0.01% Distortion THD on the verge of clipping less than 1% Input Impedance 10K @ 100pF Power consumption Static 200W/Channel Power consumption full output 310W/Channel Weight Bloody heavy. Colour Hammerite anon Favorite Music anything by Andreas VollenWeider Not so favourite sport Football Worse TV program ever "Deadender" Facecrap page SECA4EVER Pinup Girl Joanna Lumley
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Post by pinkie on Jul 27, 2015 10:54:16 GMT
James I'll be round at 7 if that's still OK - with Pip and "little shoe box". You didn't seem very familiar with my new (borrowed) toy so maybe this will be of interest Benchmark AHB2(Although clearly the author and I have a different interpretation of the word "poor" - £3000 is still a lot of bucks for me) Is it a rude question to ask what it cost you to build your SECA? I see the one it is replacing retails for around £5000
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 27, 2015 14:13:50 GMT
Not rude , but I would have to kill you, just preparing your electric chair now. should be fully charged by 7:00 tonight
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2015 14:29:14 GMT
Please report guys Have a good session
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 14:57:01 GMT
Not rude , but I would have to kill you, just preparing your electric chair now. should be fully charged by 7:00 tonight NO NOT the electric chair I had that last time, it's horrid. I rather listen to a Amstrad then that again, Run Pinkie Run.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 15:29:36 GMT
It's the comfy cushion that you have to be afraid of Pinkie. There is no crossover region in a SECA so crossover distortion is zero. The main disadvantage of SECA is no ability to move into class A/B and so it can't deliver more power into lower load impedances. As Colin quotes 40W into 8 and 61W into 4 it must have been designed to have sufficient standing current to give this output into 4R. It is a brick wall current limit usually though. Not that any of this need be an issue if you don't have awkward speakers or if they are efficient enough to be nowhere near clipping the amp at the listening levels chosen of course. As it has a huge damping factor there should be no loss of control/grip into any impedance up until it clips though (probably about 28W into 2R at a guess).
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Post by pinkie on Jul 27, 2015 15:47:48 GMT
It's Ok Colin - I've been to the torture chamber before. My biggest worry is not the electric chair, but no window and no aircon with that bloody SECA furness in there. And thanks - Jez. I bottled it at the last minute stating zero cross-over distortion, in case any non-linearity at the bias point on the device would amount to the same thing. Sovereigns speakers are fairly sensitive I think, and the room is not that big, although a bit of a tunnel. I could bring the Ventricals round to give it something to chew on since they're a git to drive (and fairly insensitive about 85db/w I think from memory). But that's probably too much faff for tonight. Let's hope everything works, and we have the right leads
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Post by brian2957 on Jul 27, 2015 17:25:24 GMT
Not rude , but I would have to kill you, just preparing your electric chair now. should be fully charged by 7:00 tonight Can we have before and after piccies please
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 27, 2015 17:30:58 GMT
I would love to take this amp round to someone's house that has inefficient speakers, my uneducated hunch would be that the amp would chew them up
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 27, 2015 17:52:21 GMT
BTW we have windows
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2015 17:57:38 GMT
my memories were more of a padded cell with feed at your own risk!
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 27, 2015 21:17:26 GMT
Well, Richard has just left, and for those who haven't met him he isn't really pink as his Avatar name suggests. Had a good time spinning tunes that we both knew and talking only when we had to We listened to a mixture of Sting, Santana, Christian Mcbride, David Midgen, Adele etc. Since I fried my LDR, don't ask, I have been using a TOCOS carbon pot to attenuate between my DIY DDDAC and the 40W SECA. After fully settling into the groove of the evening Richard and I striped out the carbon pot and put in his mains powered Pip passive pre amp into the system; you can see it on top of the silver TQ Amp. At first I thought we had lost something, then I soon realised that the Pip had pulled the sound together helping the bass integrate with the mid range and the treble and to present a more cohesive presentation, nice piece of kit there Richard. After a bit more chit chat and a few more tracks Richard put the smart looking new Benchmark amp into the system in place of the SECA, as he said just about the size of a shoebox which we sat nicely on top of the Pip. How did it sound? Well very good indeed! It gave us good separation, detail, drive, speed and a sense of air. But we did loose the palatability of the SECA amp, the texture and the tone. The Benchmark was brilliant, and I loved the tight punchy bass notes but you didn't get that big deep wallop of the SECA or the rich tones or the huge presentation presented by the SECA but the Benchmark is a very clever amp and not harsh or bright in any way at all. Horses for courses I guess. One thought I had which I mentioned to Richard is that the broad and deep bass that the SECA gives really causes the speakers to pressurise the room leading me to think I absolutely must acousticaly treat the room, because the whole room kind of reverberates. A good evening none the less. One which we should do again before Richard emigrates to France, but lets see if we can get John and Steve to attend.
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Post by John on Jul 28, 2015 4:18:10 GMT
Sounds like a great time wish I could of been there I can make weekends only Let me know one that suits and we can twist Steve arm to come along I presume the next step is upgrade the Open Baffles
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