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Post by jazzbones on May 18, 2015 11:48:49 GMT
Hopefully someone in the know (experienced) can help me on this one please. I'm wanting to buy a usable Linn Troika, one that has been sympathetically restored is my best bet. I've seen them advertised on the inty at £650.00p and £750.00p for ones that have been restored by the likes of ESC etc. Realistically, what should I pay for a good working example? The cartridge in mind would be mounted on a AO rewired Linn Ekos 1 tonearm, African hardwood board on a highly modded Tech1210Mk1.
Thanks in advance for any advice/help.
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Post by danielquinn on May 18, 2015 13:00:30 GMT
Why -
if it as been restored , it is invariably with a better cantilever and diamond and then it is not a trioka merely a modified 30 year old cartridge .
IMO the trioka in stock form is now outdated with an archaic aluminium cantiliver that would not look out of place on the 4th bridge and a diamond so big it would make liz taylor happy .
for 650 , you can buy a new modern cartridge with boron cantilever and fine line diamond - benz , zxy , shelter or at 0c9 .
should be noted that even Linn's top of the range cartridge does now sport a boron cantilever and fine line , but it is ridiculously over priced .
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Post by jazzbones on May 18, 2015 14:00:29 GMT
Why - if it as been restored , it is invariably with a better cantilever and diamond and then it is not a trioka merely a modified 30 year old cartridge . IMO the trioka in stock form is now outdated with an archaic aluminium cantiliver that would not look out of place on the 4th bridge and a diamond so big it would make liz taylor happy . for 650 , you can buy a new modern cartridge with boron cantilever and fine line diamond - benz , zxy , shelter or at 0c9 . should be noted that even Linn's top of the range cartridge does now sport a boron cantilever and fine line , but it is ridiculously over priced . Thanks for the response and suggestions Dano. I had a Linn Karma sometime ago and was rather fond of it, I traded it in for something or other and rather regret it now. I am currently using an AT33EV which I enjoy but it lacks a bit of the bass lines I so enjoy on my diet of music. The Karma use to provide that. I also have a ESC/Koetsu Black, AT09II and my original Stilton bodied ATOC9, alas, alack and woe is me, the cantilever on the latter got attacked by an over enthusiastic yellow duster for which it got relegated to filthy oil rag duties in the garage! AS for Benz, Zyx and Shelter, I've never heard them and nowadays whats left of dealers would more than likely not stock, let alone dem pickup cartridges... that era has long gone. Anyone here who can give me a verbal snapshot as to how the aforementioned three sound? As for a sympathetically refurbed Troika, with cantilever, diamond tip etc attended to, would provide what I'm looking for, bearing in mind it would NOT BE the original... I'm basing some of my faith in this from the likes of Mark and Andrew on The AudioFlat forum, the former person using pretty much the system I use. Finally, Troika and Ekos is a sympatico and successful combo. |
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Post by danielquinn on May 18, 2015 15:10:00 GMT
Fair enough , though i think you should investigate the others, imports can save you considerable expense.
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Post by naim1425 on May 18, 2015 16:44:43 GMT
stange that`s what i`m using now at the moment Ekos/Troika i am thinking of going to a koetsu black as i have one spare,trioka has not beed modded tho not used much as i use alot of different formats
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 17:36:55 GMT
Never heard the Trioka although I have owned and loved Asaks, Asakas and Karmas. I also love the Ekos and I think the arm goes very well with Linn carts.
Personally I think it is simplistic to judge a cartridge according to the size of the diamond and the cantilever material. The Denon DL-103 variants can sound incredible and track beautifully. I've had cartridges with Boron and even sapphire cantilevers. I've also had Gyger line contact styli. The Supex based Linn carts and the better Denons have pissed on them sonically and musically.
FWIW I do agree that a modded Troika is probably not really a Troika any more.
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Post by naim1425 on May 18, 2015 21:18:54 GMT
its a linn cartridge sound,more of everything good that a karma gives you but supa charged i think its a big step up in sound quality and a lot more ridgid with the 3 holes and sounds incredible in ekos or naim arm seams to add more pace and timing and tightness,well it does in my system.
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Post by ChrisB on May 18, 2015 21:27:01 GMT
How would you rate it against that K. Black in your avatar?
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Post by naim1425 on May 18, 2015 22:29:15 GMT
hard to say as its total different sound the the black seem s more refined and the troika is perfect for what i want with all naim amps and power supplies and cd player plus cables,loved the smoothness of the koetsu.if i sold one i would be happy with either one that was left.
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Post by ChrisB on May 18, 2015 23:16:29 GMT
Thanks for that.
I've been using Keotsu Blacks since 1990 - I'm running 2 just now, one on a Gyro/Zeta and the other on a Goldring G99/Zeta. I never spent much time with Linn cartridges other than the odd show and dealer demo.
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Post by naim1425 on May 18, 2015 23:34:18 GMT
the koestsu has never been used for years not many hours on it when i went from musical fidelity to naim i thought i should go the linn/naim route always had the latest updated lp12 on the go so i got used to the involving sound of the naim/linn system,i felt mus fid system was very dynamic but i was always looking for a upgrade somewhere and not totally happy with the outcome,going from a mus fid 370 power amps to 6x135`s change my electricty bill for the good,using 370 p/a the room was never cold even in the winter i sat around in shorts with the windows open lol.
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Post by MartinT on May 19, 2015 8:51:02 GMT
I am currently using an AT33EV which I enjoy but it lacks a bit of the bass lines I so enjoy on my diet of music. May I suggest that you listen to a Shelter, or just buy a good used 901? |
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Post by danielquinn on May 19, 2015 9:29:43 GMT
Never heard the Trioka although I have owned and loved Asaks, Asakas and Karmas. I also love the Ekos and I think the arm goes very well with Linn carts. Personally I think it is simplistic to judge a cartridge according to the size of the diamond and the cantilever material. The Denon DL-103 variants can sound incredible and track beautifully. I've had cartridges with Boron and even sapphire cantilevers. I've also had Gyger line contact styli. The Supex based Linn carts and the better Denons have pissed on them sonically and musically. FWIW I do agree that a modded Troika is probably not really a Troika any more. It is of course all about opinions ,but magnets and copper wire are pretty much the same ,so it seems cantilever and diamond are the most critical parts . As the specs get better so does the cantilever and diamond {as well as they way are put together . } as said - linns now top of the range as followed in boron/fine line path and this is path well trodden by the vast majority of cartridges between £600 and £2000. Additionally , I do not see many upgrade or rebuild companies offering aluminium cantilevers and big diamonds . As with all things thier are exceptions but if you want a more airy , dynamic , crisp , detailed and musical sound it is the way to go IMO . |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 10:25:01 GMT
Again with respect, I think that's too simplistic. I remember speaking to Dom at Northwest Analogue about cartridge mods and rebuilds. Upgrades seemed to centre just as much if not more on generator/windings than cantilever/stylus. It also seemed to be as much about the workmanship as the materials. Had I not heard the many DL-103 variants, I may may have been unaware of just how good a basic profile can sound. But then again, I really don't enjoy the Pink Triangle sound (although I respect it), so we may just be seeking different things.
As for the current Linn carts, they don't seem to be as loved and prized as the Supex-made predecessors. Cartridges seem to be very personal things.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 10:30:32 GMT
I am currently using an AT33EV which I enjoy but it lacks a bit of the bass lines I so enjoy on my diet of music. May I suggest that you listen to a Shelter, or just buy a good used 901? There seems to have been a real turnaround in preferences between AT carts. I well remember when the OC9 was king and the 33 was deemed a bit of a "fail" by the magazines. I recently had a 32e mk2, a 33 and an OC9. All were very good but I felt the OC9 was still the pick of the bunch for its dynamics and the way notes seemed to emerge from deeper silences. I havent heard a Shelter but not sure I could justify the cost. |
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Post by danielquinn on May 19, 2015 11:14:34 GMT
Again with respect, I think that's too simplistic. I remember speaking to Dom at Northwest Analogue about cartridge mods and rebuilds. Upgrades seemed to centre just as much if not more on generator/windings than cantilever/stylus. It also seemed to be as much about the workmanship as the materials. Had I not heard the many DL-103 variants, I may may have been unaware of just how good a basic profile can sound. But then again, I really don't enjoy the Pink Triangle sound (although I respect it), so we may just be seeking different things. As for the current Linn carts, they don't seem to be as loved and prized as the Supex-made predecessors. Cartridges seem to be very personal things. My pt is so modified not sure it can be called a pt anymore , it doesn't even have springs . It retains the platter and bearing and that is it . I am sure workmanship is key as well [ as i said] , but dom dont offer aluminium or big diamond upgrades . It is not just the materials , with a boron/fine line , you can mount the diamond on the tip of the cantilever , not push it through a hole in a L- shaped cantilever . If you read pfm , fieng offered some reasons why this may be better . |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 11:26:20 GMT
I'll have a read of PFM thanks. It remains something that really interests me. I'm especially fascinated with the 103 and why it seems to beat what look like more sophisticated rivals.
I guess we are often limited in experience of cartridges because they aren't as easy to try as other bits of kit. Dealers don't like demoing them, let alone loaning them out. I've either bought new ones blind or essentially done the same with used ones, albeit with a lesser chance of losing money. Who knows, I may find an exotic cantilevered cartridge that changes my views again.
As an aside, nothing pisses me off more than faffing about fitting a cartridge only to find I don't like it. My Sony Deck has an arm with removable headshell. That's something I'd never have countenanced years ago, but it sounds great and at least the cartridge change issue isn't a factor anymore.
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Post by MartinT on May 19, 2015 11:30:15 GMT
I will say that my AT33PTG is an excellent all-rounder which I much prefer to the OC9. It loses little to the Shelter 901. The 5000 is a different matter, though.
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Post by danielquinn on May 19, 2015 11:31:11 GMT
your just mentioning detachable headshells to annoy me  |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 11:38:13 GMT
I will say that my AT33PTG is an excellent all-rounder which I much prefer to the OC9. It loses little to the Shelter 901. The 5000 is a different matter, though. Just goes to show how tastes can vary. I kept the OC9 although I could have lived with any of the three. I do like the 103R and 103S better but it's their musical flow that I value. I've had a few "Nude" Denons and I disagree with the prevailing opinion that a stock 103 without body is better than a fully clothed more expensive variant. |
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