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Post by MartinT on May 4, 2015 9:00:53 GMT
I agree with the Doc, what you are missing from the spray-and-clean process is getting all the gunge off the record while still wet. This is where the vacuuming done by most of the record cleaning machines comes into play. Otherwise I fear you are just embedding the dirt further into the grooves from the wiping action with the cloth.
If you only have a few records, it would be more cost effective to use one of the cleaning services available and have it done professionally.
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Post by ChrisB on May 4, 2015 10:26:43 GMT
Yep, a stylus is not designed to be a plough!
It's an ultra precision measuring device and if it has to work it's way round and through 'stuff', then it simply cannot measure accurately.
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Post by daytona600 on May 4, 2015 20:58:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 6:46:05 GMT
I agree with the Doc, what you are missing from the spray-and-clean process is getting all the gunge off the record while still wet. This is where the vacuuming done by most of the record cleaning machines comes into play. Otherwise I fear you are just embedding the dirt further into the grooves from the wiping action with the cloth. If you only have a few records, it would be more cost effective to use one of the cleaning services available and have it done professionally. I almost hate to mention it,  but we do a record cleaning service using a Loricraft RCM and of course, our own "The Right One Fluid". This includes a new polylined inner bag and is now £2.50 per record plus post & packing. |
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Post by daytona600 on May 5, 2015 8:07:14 GMT
I almost hate to mention it as well ,but we do a record cleaning service for £3.00 inc new inners using a audio desk
the best cleaning fluid is no cleaning fluid
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Post by MartinT on May 5, 2015 9:08:21 GMT
Thanks, guys. We'll leave these posts in place as a service to our members although we don't normally allow trade advertising.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:19:07 GMT
Daytona600 wrote- I almost hate to mention it as well ,but we do a record cleaning service for £3.00 inc new inners using a audio desk
the best cleaning fluid is no cleaning fluid
Hi Scott,
I have no wish to get into a slagging match with you on here (or any other forum for that matter) I knew when you posted originally that you have an involvement with the Audiodesk and opted not to mention the thoughts that I and others in the industry share on this machine. I have peer reviewed research that shows that after over 1000 cleaning cycles their is no deleterious effect when using "The Right One" fluid. I also have pictures of the groove wall shot both before and after cleaning using a microscope, which show how clean the groove is. This is achevied without directing huge amounts of ultrasound energy into the delicate vinyl. Many believe that this will strip molecules of vinyl of the surface of the disc. Can you tell us how many cycles the Audiodesk has been tested on a single LP in order to check this?
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Post by gazjam on May 5, 2015 20:29:26 GMT
*edit*
amended for not making sense without original quote I was responding to!
Thats a fair point the Doc makes?
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2015 6:08:07 GMT
Guys - scientific evidence is ok to publish, but please lets not get into a slagging match here.
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Post by daytona600 on May 6, 2015 6:54:23 GMT
Can you tell us how many cycles the Audiodesk has been tested on a single LP in order to check this? no idea paul , just clean my LPs the once in 4/6 mins ultrasonic RCM do not use cleaning fluids the AD fluid just helps remove static & reduces the surface tension of the water cleaned several thousand LPs with my machine & results in a instant sound upgrade www.stereophile.com/content/audio-desk-systeme-vinyl-cleaner |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 7:26:30 GMT
Scott, As Martin says lets not get into a slagging match, but the AD does use a fluid, it uses the anti-static wetting agent in water. During the research we did, we found many anti static wetting agent were de-vinylising and they had to be rejected. BTW all RCMs that work provide an instant sound upgrade as they lower the noise floor. If they make any further difference to the sound, there is a serious problem as they are changing the information on the record.
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Post by ChrisB on May 6, 2015 7:49:38 GMT
I realise a little knowledge is dangerous, but I'm always interested in learning about anything new, so bear with me. In my limited understanding of this, the principle behind ultrasonic cleaning is to set up the motion of tiny bubbles in a fluid which then dislodges particles of dirt and grease etc. Is this not the exact same action which causes damage to ships propellors - cavitation damage?   I remember my father (a retired hydro electric consultant) telling me about the same type of damage on hydro turbine blades when I was a kid. The photo below shows the aftermath of the failure of a turbine in Siberia a few years ago, which was, in part, caused by this effect (not one of my Dad's jobs by the way!)  Now, I'm not suggesting that Scott's ridiculously expensive record cleaner is going to wreak that sort of damage on your copy of Abba's greatest hits, but I think it's probably worth pondering what the cavitation effect could do to a what is after all only a rather soft bit of plastic. |
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Post by gazjam on May 6, 2015 10:10:24 GMT
Nothing a bit of gaffer tape wont fix. |
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2015 12:34:15 GMT
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Post by danielquinn on May 6, 2015 13:04:21 GMT
dear readers , do you never get suspicious that your opinions always back up your own predicament , state of affairs and spending decisions and therefore are nothing but ideological comfort blankets .
If i find myself believing in things evidence or the lack of evidence tells me is crap like the superiority of vacuum based record cleaning machines [ sucking up embedded dirt my arse ] then i blame myself for being an idiot , i dont set off and try and convince people i am right.
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2015 14:56:13 GMT
If i find myself believing in things evidence or the lack of evidence tells me is crap like the superiority of vacuum based record cleaning machines [ sucking up embedded dirt my arse ] then i blame myself for being an idiot , i dont set off and try and convince people i am right. What do you think they do? Have you ever seen one in operation, or used one?
I have an RCM, I use it and I hear the results of cleaning. What exactly are you calling into question?
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Post by danielquinn on May 6, 2015 15:23:56 GMT
its efficacy .
there is no way to establish not even subjectively the effectiveness of a vacuum wet clean as opposed to say one of those manual wet cleans .there is so much rubbish talked about the efficacy of rcm by middle age men salivating over there new toy purchase .
i can appreciate it is convieniant but laugh at the wondrous powers ascribed to a not very powerful vacuum pump over gravity .
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Post by gazjam on May 6, 2015 15:28:56 GMT
What about looking at a record groove before and after vacuum cleaning under a microscope?
Wonder if anyone's thought of that...
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Post by gazjam on May 6, 2015 15:33:13 GMT
its efficacy . there is no way to establish not even subjectively the effectiveness of a vacuum wet clean as opposed to say one of those manual wet cleans .there is so much rubbish talked about the efficacy of rcm by middle age men salivating over there new toy purchase . i can appreciate it is convieniant but laugh at the wondrous powers ascribed to a not very powerful vacuum pump over gravity . My vacuum RCM uses Henry's nozzle to provide suction, and He sucks big time. You proceed from false assumption Dan, with malice aforethought. |
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Post by danielquinn on May 6, 2015 15:36:04 GMT
What does that bit of ingenuity prove in your eyes ?
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but we do a record cleaning service using a Loricraft RCM and of course, our own "The Right One Fluid". This includes a new polylined inner bag and is now £2.50 per record plus post & packing. 
