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Post by John on Mar 18, 2015 19:59:29 GMT
Lets keep it on track guys around DACs and is good SQ a myth from them. It certainly not been my experience but open to learning from others This could be a really good debate
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 20:12:49 GMT
Power supplies seem to have made a bigger difference in my experience. The players with the bigger and better internal PSUs have really shone and the addition of external PSUs has extended this. The best stand alone DAC I have had was the two-box DPA PDM2 which, I am led to believe, also had separate and well-designed PSUs.
Analogue output stages also seem to make a big differnce too, some of the TDA1541A players have been very satisfying to me.
I'm not a techie in any sense, so I'm only using my experience and trying to draw conclusions from it. If your experience varies, then I respect that and I remain open to changing my view if future experiences give different results.
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2015 20:20:17 GMT
Yes I also believe good power supply helps no matter if it is a DAC or CD Player For me it seems to be logical if the DAC is separate it then gives you more space to play with the power supply and less interference with the signal
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Post by AlanS on Mar 18, 2015 21:47:12 GMT
Myth
There is a large difference between the SQ/sound of different DACs. I suggest there is a large difference between headphones and in comparison DACs exhibit nuances rather than differences. Cartridges Yes, DACs not really.
I have a £35 USB DAC and a £2k+ example. They are different, especially when seeking to identify/notice a difference but once one gets into the music there really isn't much to be fussed about (unless you are selling/promoting DACs).
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Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2015 21:51:10 GMT
No-one who hears them would argue that they sound better via their own analogue outputs. And that is one of the primary purposes of a DAC, to answer the O/P. There's a lot more to DACs than two-box CD players.
In my case, the Caiman-II provides DAC services for audio streaming from my Raspberry Pi, from my Sky HD box and from my Blu-ray player. In all three cases, the sound is in a completely different league compared with using their analogue outputs.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2015 21:51:43 GMT
Alan: But now you're talking about headphone amps! I appreciate that a myth can be created by a subset of users (like the headphone folks), but I think we need to concentrate on the specifics of DACs here. That would also discount those myths created by the folks who use their DAC as a preamp.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2015 21:56:57 GMT
Martin: That's very much part of what I was alluding to: there are so many more uses for a half competent DAC than as an adjunct to a CD player/transport.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2015 21:59:20 GMT
Myth. There is a large difference between the SQ/sound of different DACs. I can't agree with that, since there is even a large difference in SQ with the same DAC using different power supplies. For digital sources, the DAC is critical to the final SQ whether it be stand-alone or built-in to the component.
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Post by AlanS on Mar 18, 2015 22:11:43 GMT
Alan: But now you're talking about headphone amps! I appreciate that a myth can be created by a subset of users (like the headphone folks), but I think we need to concentrate on the specifics of DACs here. That would also discount those myths created by the folks who use their DAC as a preamp. No I am not talking about headphone amps. You have jumped to that conclusion because I mentioned the word headphones, I could equally speak about loudspeakers. There is a large difference twixt analogue transducers (not the amps driving them) but a minuscule difference in DACs (if you find widely different sounding DACs then they are truely badly designed).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 22:15:12 GMT
I have to agree with Martin. If I had to use a QED digit or Micromega Microdac, I'd not bother. Compare them to the better ones and the differences are huge AFAIC.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2015 22:16:46 GMT
Can't agree with any of that I'm afraid.
And I'm neither selling, nor promoting any product for anyone.
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Post by John on Mar 19, 2015 5:14:09 GMT
Every DAC I heard does it job but each one had different levels of insight into the music For me that is important as I enjoy a detaled musical sound
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 19, 2015 8:33:22 GMT
Myth. There is a large difference between the SQ/sound of different DACs. I can't agree with that, since there is even a large difference in SQ with the same DAC using different power supplies. For digital sources, the DAC is critical to the final SQ whether it be stand-alone or built-in to the component. Agreed There was an improvement in SQ when I went from Pioneer direct into the amp and then put in the Bushmaster When I put the Ankaka battery in the difference was greater - big surprise to me Edit If I get around to it would be interesting to compare the old to new chip I now have in the Caiman Another surprising difference which I am really enjoying
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Post by AlanS on Mar 19, 2015 10:26:20 GMT
I think the difference between you guys who are hearing massive differences and myself is. I am not looking for improvements between DACs (or most other gear I try exploring someones recommendations) I listen with a neutral/open mind and if something makes itself obvious to me fair enough. I don't start out from having looked for/sought/expected to find an improvement.
A cartridge can sound hugely different due to stylus, cantilever, suspension, coils, magnet, shielding. The mechanical variation is obvious and the scope for a different sound wide. Similarly for speakers/headphones with cones, suspension, magnets and coils let alone crossovers and boxes. Massive scope for differences
DAC are chips made by a few large manufacturers and aim to convert to a flat response (unlike the variance in mechanical devices) within the source being fed into them. A DAC producer is not designing these chips, they are taking a globally available device. Just taking them and applying an output stage and environment to work in. I agree someone could make huge differences at this point and perhaps some do. Of the devices I have listened to there is a minimal difference thankfully. I repeat if you are hearing large differences someone isn't doing their job right. I suggest you try another supplier rather than a company that is making such a variation in SQ from a device that is designed to give a faithful translation of the source material.. A lot of manufacturers manage to do it.
But I can tell you have a different view of the world
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Post by MartinT on Mar 19, 2015 10:42:31 GMT
I think the difference between you guys who are hearing massive differences and myself is. I'd just like to clear up the terminology, Alan, as we're in danger of going down the silly "night and day" route. I wouldn't call them massive differences. They are significant as I find them audible (as opposed to insignificant), so they are worth having, but "massive" implies a level of change comparable to master tape versus cassette tape. It isn't on that level.
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Post by yomanze on Mar 19, 2015 11:47:46 GMT
Here's a myth for you: DACs are completely transparent.
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Post by John on Mar 19, 2015 16:33:22 GMT
I do not hear massive differences I hear differences that are important to me ( I recognise that this may not be important to others) and I also recognise that sometimes that all they are is just a difference I have often heard gear that I expected to be better or worse and have been surprised with my findings The system change that has made the most difference has not been any DAC
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Post by John on Mar 19, 2015 16:36:17 GMT
Here's a myth for you: DACs are completely transparent. Agree I would go as far to say that everything that has a influence on the signal adds or takes away something to the sound. In the end we settle for our own perception of what we like best
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 19:47:26 GMT
Here's another Myth Yamaha NS1000 are transparent
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Post by John on Mar 19, 2015 19:52:13 GMT
Lol
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