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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2015 7:57:33 GMT
Apparently there are some myths about DACs. I'd like to know what they are and perhaps then we can debunk them. Or is that just a myth?
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Post by jammy on Mar 18, 2015 10:07:14 GMT
A transport / dac combo is better than a stand alone cd player....Bullshit and myth.
I did try a Transport / Dac combo a while back in the shape of......
Audio Note Zero CD Transport / Perpetual Technologies P1A - P3A DAC / Modright supplies....... Not cheap, and apparently the blurb said it was the dogs bollox all singing dancing and the bestest.
It was shit.......Or should I say not as good as my stand alone Copland CD player.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2015 10:33:16 GMT
There are no rules about transports and DACs. I have a superb one-box player but I've also heard venerable transports matched up with new DACs and sound superb.
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2015 11:12:08 GMT
I had a Nu-vista 3d that I got Audiocom to mod very heavily. My playback system which is a lot cheaper than my previous playback and gives me access to a lot more music. For me a result But agree some CD Players are good. Some DACS and Transports are good. For me good we have choice The best digital system I heard was using a TAD DAC with a dedicated server. Totally modern approach but sounded awesome Some great DACS around : Caimam is great value for performance The DDAC is amazing value to performance and love Speedy Steve Nadja based DSP/DAC system The last two are DIY
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Post by stanleyb on Mar 18, 2015 11:48:21 GMT
I used to sell quite a few TC-7510 DACs to Naim CDP owners after a few of them discovered that my separate DAC made their £5K CDP sound so much better. I even had users opening threads about it on the Naim forum. If it is supposed to be a myth that a separate combo is no better, then whoever came up with the idea that is a myth is obviously ill informed to the extreme.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 13:08:59 GMT
I have had a lot of DACs over the years but my favourite players so far have been Naim single box (albeit improved by a separate PSU.
That doesn't mean I'm concluding that a Transport/DAC can't improve on them. I haven't heard everything out there yet and I'd particularly like to try a Chord DAC64. If it betters what I have, then I will simply conclude its better sounding than what I have. If it's worse, I will draw the opposite conclusion. Neither outcome will lead me to conclude that either approach is intrinsically better. I don't know enough about the subject to be sure of anything. Id expect that it depends on the particular product and the tastes/expectations of the listener. I have had both DACs and stand alone payers that have ranged from un-listenable to very good.
I haven't tried a Beresford DAC but if they have been known to appeal to those who like the Naim sound, I'd like to. You don't see many of them for sale second hand and that is always a good indicator. I don't really understand the evolution of the Beresford range, or what the differences are. I don't even know how much they cost new let alone used, so any info from any source would be welcome.
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Post by John on Mar 18, 2015 13:29:16 GMT
The Bushmaster and Caiman. The Caiman is the better DAC (I had both) and responds really well to using a power bank as a power source. For me a big upgrade over the standard power supply and a 12v bike battery. But lots of DACs around For me the biggest change in DACs is the performance you get considering the costs
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Post by jammy on Mar 18, 2015 13:49:41 GMT
If it is supposed to be a myth that a separate combo is no better, then whoever came up with the idea that is a myth is obviously ill informed to the extreme.(Stanley Beresford).
Well Stan if you would care to dismount your high fukin horse for a while you would see I came up with the above idea along with many others. My reasons for stating a combo is no better is quite obvious by my post prior to yours......wtf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 14:00:29 GMT
The Bushmaster and Caiman. The Caiman is the better DAC (I had both) and responds really well to using a power bank as a power source. For me a big upgrade over the standard power supply and a 12v bike battery. But lots of DACs around For me the biggest change in DACs is the performance you get considering the costs Thanks, John. Can you or anyone tell me what "Gatorised" means. I have seen it written before on the odd sales thread. The other bit that I've seen that I don't really get is the "firmware" versions/updates. Are these just to improve functionality or do they change/improve the sound. Also, I have seen mk2 and mk3 versions (I think). Are they different sonically or is it just facilities/cosmetics/firmware even? Edit: just spotted a rather lengthy thread on Caiman 2 so will skim through that as a starting point,
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Post by gazjam on Mar 18, 2015 14:21:14 GMT
My modded Young Dac with separate linear PSU was a very big step up from my old Rega Dac, which itself trounced a few dacs in its time.
Separate dacs are the way to go, until you pay mega bucks for single box transports, then its more down to quality of power supply than Dac implementation IMO.
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Post by gazjam on Mar 18, 2015 14:22:55 GMT
If it is supposed to be a myth that a separate combo is no better, then whoever came up with the idea that is a myth is obviously ill informed to the extreme.(Stanley Beresford). Well Stan if you would care to dismount your high fukin horse for a while you would see I came up with the above idea along with many others. My reasons for stating a combo is no better is quite obvious by my post prior to yours......wtf Put your anger beans back in the jar Jammie...chill oot!
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Post by danielquinn on Mar 18, 2015 14:28:07 GMT
I used to sell quite a few TC-7510 DACs to Naim CDP owners after a few of them discovered that my separate DAC made their £5K CDP sound so much better. I even had users opening threads about it on the Naim forum. If it is supposed to be a myth that a separate combo is no better, then whoever came up with the idea that is a myth is obviously ill informed to the extreme. As a matter of logic , if i put the same components in your favorite 2 box player in a well screened large 1 box player , then they will be equally as good . And it may just be me , but i would not trust the opinion of anyone who spent 5k on a niam player, on absolutely anything. Also I note the symmetry between your views and the products you sell .
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Post by pre65 on Mar 18, 2015 15:47:10 GMT
I used to sell quite a few TC-7510 DACs to Naim CDP owners after a few of them discovered that my separate DAC made their £5K CDP sound so much better. I even had users opening threads about it on the Naim forum. If it is supposed to be a myth that a separate combo is no better, then whoever came up with the idea that is a myth is obviously ill informed to the extreme. And it may just be me , but i would not trust the opinion of anyone who spent 5k on a niam player, on absolutely anything. I might take an opposing view.
If someone who had spent £5K on a Naim player was prepared to admit that an inexpensive (say up to £750) DAC made the sound more musical, then I WOULD believe him.
But how many Naim CD players have a digital out facility ?
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Post by gazjam on Mar 18, 2015 15:54:35 GMT
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Post by danielquinn on Mar 18, 2015 16:27:37 GMT
And it may just be me , but i would not trust the opinion of anyone who spent 5k on a niam player, on absolutely anything. I might take an opposing view.
If someone who had spent £5K on a Naim player was prepared to admit that an inexpensive (say up to £750) DAC made the sound more musical, then I WOULD believe him.
But how many Naim CD players have a digital out facility ?
Nah , there opinion would be tainted by they spent £5k on naim cd player post sale they found out a 200 quid dac made is better . and whats more the week before they bought the dac they would probably be telling anyone who would listen how good the naim was .
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Post by pre65 on Mar 18, 2015 16:43:23 GMT
Daniel, I find your logic illogical.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 16:47:00 GMT
Thanks for that. I'll do a bit more Googling,
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Post by AlanS on Mar 18, 2015 17:04:21 GMT
Singularity
Why are you not directing your questions to Stan Beresford (or him not picking up on them)?
I am sure he would be only too happy to tell you and the world all about his products. Perhaps a PM from him would avoid taking over this thread with a focus/bias on SB products.
You have the horses mouth available to you and a willing horse at that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 17:22:57 GMT
I deliberately avoided doing that directly because I didn't want to compromise Stan or the forum. I wasn't exactly sure when or where the line is drawn in terms of manufacturers talking about their own products.
I don't really know much about Stan or his prodcts, but I seem to detect you may do from your post above. Stan is welcome to PM me if he likes but I'd likely be buying used as I rarely buy new.
I have found out more from the contributions above already and am now googling different threads. The thing that always deterred me from reading about Beresford were terms I didn't understand such as "firmware", Gatorised etc. just a couple of contributions here have helped me get past that so im grateful.
Apologies if that made the thread drift a little. I genuinely don't feel I "took over" the thread in asking for a bit more info but I'm sorry if you feel otherwise.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2015 18:26:50 GMT
A transport / dac combo is better than a stand alone cd player. It's one of those useless absolutist statements isn't it? Unfortunately, so is that! Like most things, there are good combinations and bad ones. Also. there are great one box players and some less good ones. I don't think many people who've heard it demonstrated would argue against the idea that a tired old budget stand alone player can be given a proper kick up the arse and a new lease of life by plugging it into a modern DAC. I own a pretty pricey one box player, which I love, but it also performs as a DAC for other more humble sources. No-one who hears them would argue that they sound better via their own analogue outputs.
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