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Post by Sovereign on Feb 9, 2015 10:39:41 GMT
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 9, 2015 12:47:33 GMT
Tis a monster then Course, easier to move than my P10 as you can get to it !  Mine is buried in a Mana rack |
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Post by Sovereign on Feb 9, 2015 13:33:59 GMT
OK, not got any more excuses to give ;-)
We will have to have a day at ScruffyDog Towers
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Post by Sovereign on Feb 9, 2015 13:40:52 GMT
The only slight problem is my MTBPS is in its rawest form with no inrush protection, when we plug it in it is likely to blow your mains. What kind of consumer unit do you have?
The other problem, the unit has Neutrik PowerCons for both the incoming supply and outgoing balanced power.
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 9, 2015 14:59:43 GMT
I have circuit breakers and a consumer unit new in 2009.
Still have the insane at work and collapsing on my one day off like yesterday.
Not a productive day at all
Should be this year !
I will need help at my end, might get away with one extra, 2 is preferred
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Post by daytona600 on Feb 10, 2015 21:29:25 GMT
why use the mains with all the emc/rfi brown outs , power sags , spikes etc off grid battery PV system for me 229.96volts at present & 50.002Hz and powers the whole house & no leckie bill for Life & the balance you sell to the grid & get paid tax free for decades cost less than a fancy mains regen unit like the P10 ( about £4k installed ) generates £ 1500 per year x 25 years in feed in tarrifs = £37500 ( tax free ) P10 circa £4k regen unit PV circa £ 4k regen unit + £ 37k in income - free energy for life - supplied pv inverter better than any regen unit & could supply several dozen krell monoblocks with built in isolation transformer & sine wave output & harmonics & efficiency better than any mains regen unit the sun never sends you a bill www.microgenerationcertification.org/ |
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Post by Sovereign on Feb 10, 2015 22:47:40 GMT
Very valid point there !
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Post by John on Feb 11, 2015 8:42:22 GMT
Agree and one worth reflecting upon
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Post by BilliumB on Feb 12, 2015 17:23:47 GMT
why use the mains with all the emc/rfi brown outs , power sags , spikes etc off grid battery PV system for me 229.96volts at present & 50.002Hz and powers the whole house & no leckie bill for Life & the balance you sell to the grid & get paid tax free for decades cost less than a fancy mains regen unit like the P10 ( about £4k installed ) generates £ 1500 per year x 25 years in feed in tarrifs = £37500 ( tax free ) P10 circa £4k regen unit PV circa £ 4k regen unit + £ 37k in income - free energy for life - supplied pv inverter better than any regen unit & could supply several dozen krell monoblocks with built in isolation transformer & sine wave output & harmonics & efficiency better than any mains regen unit the sun never sends you a bill www.microgenerationcertification.org/ Yes, but what if you want to listen at night? Cheers. Bill |
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Post by daytona600 on Feb 12, 2015 21:16:28 GMT
Batteries !!!
also works in a power cut , play music , have a shower , watch TV
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Post by BilliumB on Feb 13, 2015 1:42:08 GMT
So, how big are the batteries?
Cheers. Bill
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Post by pinkie on Feb 13, 2015 6:51:37 GMT
On the subject of threads where I fear to tread, this one features large. I am still interested in trying one of your bps James. Not sure what happened to the one you were going to lend.
But dedicated mains. How does one evaluate and compare. If you want to try 2 dacs which are very close would you be happy auditioning the first dac on Monday 2nd and the next dac on Monday 16th. And smash the first dac so there was no option to go back and check what it sounded like.
It was impossible for me to assess how much the mains treatment contributed to your systems sound, but not enough to overcome a loud 50hz hum from one channel, 15" bass drivers in the corner of a low-ceilinged echoic tunnel, or digital only sources compared with vinyl.
Not only have I never had a convincing demonstration of the benefits of mains, but none of my friends in audio consider it relevant. Some of them work for big big budget organisations who have no forum agenda and would look to maximise and optimise the performance of their equipment in sales demonstrations.
I think there are too many other things make a really important genuine difference, and Mains is a wicked mermaid luring sailors to their hifi doom.
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Post by Sovereign on Feb 13, 2015 13:17:34 GMT
Hi Richard
I didn't lend it to you as I was making it for someone else and didn't think it appropriate. It would have been good as it had UK three pin sockets on it, more conveniently it had inrush protection on it, where as mine doesn't.
There is no way of knowing how a better mains installation will effect the sound of your hifi other than take the plung and see what happens. Depending on where the CU is in your house, you could put a very temporary instal together and see what you think
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Post by John on Feb 13, 2015 17:21:40 GMT
Hi Richard
I think mains will always divide the crowd. Most studios use Balanced mains. I am pretty sure Abbey Road have a dedicated mains system in it. For me I live in a pre war house close to a industrial estate so perhaps this has something to do with it. My biggest mains improvement is when the house got new boards etc. The reason for the work was not as mains improvement more a safety to the home improvement and was not expecting any difference.
A lot of people get of the grid as much as they can, e.g. batteries. Get something like a Caiman and feed it with a Lithium battery and it takes into whole new level of performance. Everyone who has tried this has had this result.
I have friends who are sceptics, but even some of them have now moved to battery power
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Post by MartinT on Feb 13, 2015 17:34:16 GMT
The Caiman / Li-Ion improvement is the most extreme performance difference I've heard. Otherwise, I agree, mains quality seems to vary a lot from house to house. Internal noise generation from wall-warts and PCs can be the most significant source of noise in some, too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 21:44:57 GMT
As i wrote in another thread, I have a new listening/living room which is currentley a bare shell. The concrete floor gets it's hardwood floor tomorrow, so today the seprarate radial went in using LAPP cable. This is transformer isolated and balanced and will feed the power conditioners. Can't wait to get the kit moved over next week.
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Post by Sovereign on Feb 20, 2015 21:50:06 GMT
Fantastic, do you have any pictures?
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Post by Paul Barker on Feb 21, 2015 3:53:20 GMT
supplied pv inverter better than any regen unit & could supply several dozen krell monoblocks with built in isolation transformer & sine wave output & harmonics & efficiency better than any mains regen unit the sun never sends you a bill Yours is an unusual house in the UK which doesn't have to buy some electricity from the grid. It isn't a claim any MCS registered installer is allowed to predict-make. Neither could they claim battery back up is capable of maintaining a 24 hr 365 day total grid independence as you infer, but you are a very unique user if you have battery backup for your whole house. the concept that a solar pv grid tie inverter microgenerates cleaner electricity than all the other concepts mentioned here, is a wanderful solution if it is true. Your claims are a marvellous possibility. Indeed I recall one friend stating his music sounded better when his house was returning power to the grid. You know that you are always joined to the grid when your inverter is generating, as the first test the grid tie inverter must make is a test for power, so that you don't back feed the grid when a lineman has turned it off to work safely to prevent you killing him. So with a grid tie inverter you are never in a house which is disconnected from the noise on the grid. the best option for these guys which genuinely isolates them from the grid is a non grid tie inverter dedicated to hifi with battery backup. Forget the fit and the wild claims that you never need to buy electricity. |
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Post by pinkie on Feb 22, 2015 8:20:37 GMT
Hi Richard I think mains will always divide the crowd. Most studios use Balanced mains. I am pretty sure Abbey Road have a dedicated mains system in it. For me I live in a pre war house close to a industrial estate so perhaps this has something to do with it. My biggest mains improvement is when the house got new boards etc. The reason for the work was not as mains improvement more a safety to the home improvement and was not expecting any difference. A lot of people get of the grid as much as they can, e.g. batteries. Get something like a Caiman and feed it with a Lithium battery and it takes into whole new level of performance. Everyone who has tried this has had this result. I have friends who are sceptics, but even some of them have now moved to battery power I think there are 2 issues here which are regularly confused. First - the quality of the dc power supply to hifi matters very much indeed. Replacing poor power supplies with good ones is sure to have the potential to improve the sound. Replacing the cheap simple smps power supply on the Raspberry Pi with a battery is a classic example. But a better quality well designed linear power supply would have similar benefits. The issue is that you are improving the dc conversion - not the mains that feeds that converter. second - improving the mains supply to the DC converter. You don't improve the quality of the conversion to dc by taking a bit of noise or reactance out of the mains that feeds it. It is not the same thing at all to argue that rewiring the house will change the performance of my Raspberry Pi using the cheap nasty smps power supply. They are 2 separate issues. Build a good AC to DC converter - yes , big difference. Change the AC you feed it with - no, no difference (within sensible limits - ie you can't expect to feed a 110v converter with 230v) The pip is a good example of how a fully integrated power supply solution can improve the quality of the sound - and it is consequently not greatly improved by batteries. Independant voltage regulation on each gain stage, and the transconductance configuration have "Power supply" properties that are downstream of the power supply itself - or if you prefer, aspects that are important in a good power supply are integral to the design of the amplifier, and consequently fiddling with the power supply has greatly diminished (to the point of zero) impact. But folk confuses and blur the difference between the importance of converting AC into DC well, and the irrelevance of fannying about with the AC that that conversion process is suuplied with |
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Post by John on Feb 22, 2015 8:56:50 GMT
At last we getting somewhere The quality of mains matters you clearly demonstrated this by talking about the Pip and how it address this. I do think the issues mains can be system dependent and have no issues that power cables do not work in your system Richard I am more than happy to prove that they work in the context of my system and done this a few times. I be more than happy to move off the grid completely to be honest. We all live in different situations and different systems and from time to time are guilty of vast genralisations. My main point is clean power matters how you achieve this can be varied, but it does have effect on well your system performs
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