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Post by julesd68 on Jun 30, 2022 15:51:16 GMT
Many of us trust that our crossovers use good components and are fit for purpose.
Has anyone been tempted to 'upgrade' them? And what prompted you to consider this?
I was watching a dude upgrading the crossovers on my speakers, and on paper, the measurements looked a worthwhile improvement. Of course, no subjective evaluation there and he is selling the upgrades. He also improved rigidity of the cabs but that's another story...
Your thoughts please gentlemen.
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Post by petea on Jun 30, 2022 16:03:11 GMT
I'm certainly tempted as it looks like Royd sourced their components from Tandy and the cross-overs are in an external box.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 30, 2022 16:22:47 GMT
Some speaker manufacturers sourced cheap components while other speakers are old and the crossovers, especially the capacitors, have aged and dried out or the values have drifted.
When I restored my Gale speakers I replaced the capacitors and resistors but not the inductors because a) they are hard to source and b) they looked fine.
The results were good.
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Post by John on Jun 30, 2022 16:27:24 GMT
I upgraded the crossover on the Hawthrones but this was a DIY based open baffle and read good reports on the forum. Later I changed the tweeter and had to make slight adjustments
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Post by ChrisB on Jun 30, 2022 17:21:26 GMT
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Post by julesd68 on Jun 30, 2022 17:59:54 GMT
Very nice Chris, what an excellent job you did with those Genexxas. I'm thinking along those lines - better quality crossover components and some work to improve rigidity of cabs. Of course my ailing power amp will have to come first!
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Post by julesd68 on Jun 30, 2022 18:11:53 GMT
Some speaker manufacturers sourced cheap components while other speakers are old and the crossovers, especially the capacitors, have aged and dried out or the values have drifted. Am I right in thinking that you were toying with upgrading your Usher crossovers at one point?
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Post by MartinT on Jun 30, 2022 18:15:41 GMT
I was, but both companies who were offering component kits have gone silent.
It'll remain a rainy day (after I retire) project.
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Post by brettj on Jul 1, 2022 10:25:34 GMT
Is still something I will probably do.
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Post by ajski2fly on Jul 1, 2022 11:07:03 GMT
I'm certainly tempted as it looks like Royd sourced their components from Tandy and the cross-overs are in an external box. I think this really depends upon the sound quality of the speakers and how good the overall design including the crossovers was in the first place. Another aspect is if the crossover components are getting a bit old in the tooth, 15-20 years maybe, then it may be best to either replace with equivalent spec crossover components or if known improvements can be had to improve the crossover, but as I have been told by a couple of speaker designers and repairers it is often not straight forward. I used to have a pair of Impulse H2's and these have a known crossover issue at around 550hz, if I recall correctly, that causes a drop out, A repairer who was very familiar with them over many years advised this was very simply rectified with a £1 resistor in each crossover but to do it right needed accurate measurements to be taken of each speaker and then ensuring the result was a matched pair. However others would advise on replacing the crossovers and upgrading the tweeter, much more costly. I also found out that there were variations in the crossover design and placement of them over their build life, so it was clear that it was not that clear cut. I talked with a few owners that had taken both routes mentioned, interestingly the first route seemed to be liked more, the second route had moved the voicing of the speakers away from their original sound and some had then sold them and gone to another speaker design. I leave you to make your conclusions on this. I also had an original pair of JLB L100s from the mid 70's, they actually sounded rather good with the original crossovers and variable pots which still worked fine. I investigated upgrading or changing the crossovers, and once again came across various views, from leave them as they are to just remove the pots and to throw away the crossovers and replace. Once again reviews of all approaches seemed to fall into two camps, minimal changes to the original spec was best, just replacing/upgrading components with removing the variable pots and setting the crossovers to the original neutral set up, the other camp being throw the original crossovers away and install a different specification. It seemed the overall outcome/consensus was similar to the above. Personally I think if the speakers work well with your amp and you enjoy the overall sound then leave alone. If they are a bit old in the tooth then I would replace resistors and capacitors to the original spec but possibly of a higher quality, doing much more is likely to change how the voicing and you may not like that, I suppose you could always revert it.
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Post by speedysteve on Jul 1, 2022 12:27:57 GMT
Wire wound inductors can't go out of spec, unless burnt. You could upgrade to air cores. Thickest wire you can afford🙂
Caps - decent modern polyprop last ages. They can have different sounds, so auditioning is a possibility. How much time and money you have?
I'd avoid the oil/paper or wax so called audio ones. Not stable over the years.
Resistors don't seem to drift much.
I've tested lots of ancient ones and they are good. Could replace with film though.
Have a look at how they are laid out. Follows the rules? Lots of space is good.
You could measure the room and adjust slope and X point to hone. Lots of work in passives though.
Going active / DSP is the natural progression for multiway. Caps. Resistors, inductors, Zobels etc do sap signal quality. More noticeable with high efficiency, good quality drivers.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 1, 2022 12:40:03 GMT
Clarity caps and Millers resistors are safe bets. Leave inductors alone.
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Post by John on Jul 1, 2022 12:54:16 GMT
Jules I actually think hold this off till you get the sound issue sorted. You have a nice pair of speakers and I would be careful to changing the balance of them
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Post by petea on Jul 1, 2022 12:59:23 GMT
I was planning on matching the design and specification, but using good quality components. I will leave the originals untouched as the housing can just be unbolted from the bottom of the speakers and they are connected to the speaker drivers by fly-leads to sockets in the back of the cabinets. I will change the connectors though as they are pretty crap and one is broken (and a pain to fit the speaker leads into).
That means I will change the inductors as well and I can try a few variants with regards suppliers. I have already bought decent fly-leads to use.
The speakers are working fine and sound good despite their age and so there is no urgency: it would just be an interesting, and relatively simple, project.
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Post by daytona600 on Jul 1, 2022 13:17:58 GMT
21st century External x/o + 4/6 channel amp full DSP , Room correction
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Post by speedysteve on Jul 1, 2022 14:37:46 GMT
Room correction on deep bass is good. Bad on everything else in my experience. Hopefully they are evolving and getting better.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 1, 2022 16:40:52 GMT
Agreed, I don't like room correction much. I far prefer room treatment.
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