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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 10:56:10 GMT
tbh Tonedeaf im very much considering scrapping turntables for good. They are basically rubbish imho.. Ive heard some files lately which sound far superior to vinyl. I really really do not know why i bother farting about with such a problematic source.
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tonedeaf
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Post by tonedeaf on Apr 26, 2018 12:57:20 GMT
tbh Tonedeaf im very much considering scrapping turntables for good. They are basically rubbish imho.. Ive heard some files lately which sound far superior to vinyl. I really really do not know why i bother farting about with such a problematic source. I enjoy the interaction, I'm not chasing the highest sq for the money I spend, as I find form and function to be important features and pleasure of audio
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 13:03:00 GMT
Dont get me wrong i love turntables & the Records, putting em on, the smell etc but are they really worth the hassle.. I think ive always expected too much from a very flawed way of playing music.. The only draw back for me is i feel lost playing digits. But whats the most important i ask myself the actual ultimate sound or the nostalgia!
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Post by dsjr on Apr 26, 2018 15:42:06 GMT
XA may need work and the basic looking tonearm is totally misunderstood sadly, although it should play host to an AT530 very well I think. They usually go for many hundreds now though I love the old idler drive Duals, but boy, do they need an understanding hand to service them. The disasters being discussed on VE now mean you'd have to watch out for a botched one, although some new and used parts can be got here and there and there's a possibility of a European sourced idler refurb...
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Post by ant on Apr 26, 2018 16:50:02 GMT
I'll second that re the duals, i had a 1019 in as the basis of a project that was cosmetically lovely, but had a problem with the speed adjust. It wasn't just that. Digging into it, almost every lever, keyway, slot and bracket was bent in some way. I spent ages with it trying to get it to run properly, stripped it completely reshaped the bent bits, ect,rebuilt it with a steady hand and eye but it was almost impossible to get it work reliably. It beat me. Only one every to. gave up on it and bought something else as a replacement for the project basis. If one thing is slighly out they will spit the dummy out
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Post by dsjr on Apr 26, 2018 17:12:11 GMT
You must have been too clumsy with it? hell, I'm the last one to be as gentle as can be, but I was able to rebuild my 1214 with a replacement tonearm and rest setting the fixed bias more to sub 2g settings, completely strip, clean and properly re-lube the auto mechanism including the main auto cam parts (taking care not to lose the tiny 'U' spring which flies off never to be found again...) and reassemble correctly first time and using the heavier cast platter from the 1216. It's the quietest running through the speakers of the effin' lot excepting my 701 which is a silent direct drive (that had other problems though).
My 1019 was pretty well 'there' still and didn't need to be stripped out. It's suffering the usual motor drone in the background which all idler decks have to some extent. I have removed the main lever to clean the 'pimpel' and check the main running surface (an unholy compromise of friction and lubricant which apparently must be molycote on these earlier decks - later ones need gadus Alvania which a VE poster supplies in small pots). Mind you, I've been botching old Garrards and BSR's for fifty years now - eek!!! - so must have picked up something along the way...
If you still have the 1019 kicking around somewhere, take a look at the 'Dualcan' website. Klaus used to be a major part of the Canadian Dual importer and he knows these decks backwards (deliberate pun ). There's a full multi-image pictorial guide in totally taking a 1019 down to the last screw and retaining clip, including the bottom motor bearings which can wear and run stiffly. Replacement motor bearing sleeves are being made as I type, dearing rings for 1219/1229 and 1249's are availabale again (these three models have one thing which is a major service need at this age and dearing ring breakage results if not dealt with before anything else).
Later Duals before the 505 models were simpler by far and easier to work on, but as with all auto decks, the lubricants will need checking. The 505's were more lightly built and at the time, I couldn't get beyond an audibly scrappy sound from them, even the better plinthed 'Audiophile Concept' models. the 505 is still in production as the 505-4 and the bland sounding 455 series lives on as a Thorens or two I gather!
Sorry if I'm going off on one. I LOVE these old Duals as the basic engineering is good and the sonic results superb on a sorted one, even the 1019 and other 10" platter models with a slightly shorter tonearm (nobody in their right mind is going to use a micro-line or similar stylus with one, so it doesn't really matter). My 1019 plays good music, the motor was mostly stripped, serviced and tightened very firmly and a newer later production idler with thinner driving surface has quietened it down well. I need to try these re-tyred idlers once I can find out more - or try some rubber reconditioner in the meantime
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Post by ant on Apr 26, 2018 17:14:19 GMT
Nope it was like that when I got it
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Post by dsjr on Apr 26, 2018 17:20:55 GMT
Many posts by Klaus on VE concerning bent (or not) plates and levers on Duals with posted pics showing what to do. I can't help it, they've become a sort of semi-retirement obsession for me and there's a now properly plinthed 1009SK2 waiting in the garage for my attention (same motor and almost identical arm from the 1019, but slimmer cast platter and no fine speed adjustment - I do have a carved up 1019 I could use parts from to convert perhaps? ). As you all were chaps - apologies...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 17:21:19 GMT
You think you got issues. I just finished restoring a Rega 'Planet' turntable, New Motor, Lid, Belt. New arm fitted etc to find the platter has a very very small wave as it spins. There is nothing wrong with it its just the nature of how that Tripod platter was made. Of course i have seriously bad OCD & this has driven me up the wall. I need to order a brand new Standard Planar Bearing Housing, An after market planar Alloy Sub Platter & after market Platter to replace it. Not is it only no longer original it will cost me something i really could do without both spending the money & secondly im not really interested in it any more now the platters going to be removed.
The old Rega was the last resort for an utterly simplistic satisfactory sounding Turntable. [Had to be early as the Plinth finish were nicer imho]
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Post by ant on Apr 26, 2018 17:25:10 GMT
Could it no be trued by adjusting the rods holding the outer pods?
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Post by dsjr on Apr 26, 2018 17:27:57 GMT
Nothing wrong with the 'truth' of 99.9999999% of original Rega Planar plastic hubs Andr'e, appreciating the new ones are different. I set up hundreds of Regas in my time and the platters held truth incredibly well, any that didn't look quite right being immediately replaced. the top edge the glass sat on was skimmed well and the side face the belt ran on was lightly skimmed too, the remaining speed error designed in and now adjustable with the Neo supply! Aluminium hubs look posher though but I'd implore any Rega owners NOT to go for fancy ceramic or jewelled balls as the steel one is perfect for the long life of the bearing and the job it needs to do and the rumble/noise from this bearing is as good or better than most others (-80db or better I gather) and it's the belt drive which governs the 'rumble' noise spectrum of these decks.
Could you get a jeweller, properly qualified horologist or similar, to 'ease' the platter pods into better alignment? Sounds daft, but sometimes these fine craftsmen have an eye for these things and the ability to fine tune tolerances like this...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 17:41:49 GMT
The trouble with the plastic hubs is the spindle is way too short, impossible to use my Michell Record Clamp.. Its not the rods or the pods its how the hub has been engineered. Dont picture a giant wave as it spins because its only very fractional, but enough to drive me nuts, my brain seems to play on things that others find perfectly ok
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 26, 2018 17:52:21 GMT
Have you got the clamp that is specifically made for Rega decks?
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tonedeaf
Rank: Trio
Oldies are Goldies
Posts: 168
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Post by tonedeaf on Apr 26, 2018 18:25:56 GMT
XA may need work and the basic looking tonearm is totally misunderstood sadly, although it should play host to an AT530 very well I think. They usually go for many hundreds now though I love the old idler drive Duals, but boy, do they need an understanding hand to service them. The disasters being discussed on VE now mean you'd have to watch out for a botched one, although some new and used parts can be got here and there and there's a possibility of a European sourced idler refurb... The XA I've found has been well improved throughout and looks immaculate as well. It's up at £255 and I'm off to view it tomorrow, not really knowing what to expect sound wise as never heard one.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 26, 2018 18:53:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 3:28:52 GMT
They are not worth £200 imho
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Post by dsjr on Apr 27, 2018 8:05:19 GMT
The AR decks have a very clean bass usually and a light 'airy' quality as I remember, although 'The Turntable' as well as the previous XB-77 had wobbly main bearings which ruined the sound. The EB101 was a good one though in very plain clothes and the UK issue Legend was excellent I recall.
The Systemdek IIX/900 was beefier but another musical one. I wonder if the usual soft belt pitch waywardness may have had something to do with it through, as the Manticore Mantra was the same. The Systemkek III (I don't know the IV) was also better than the arms we used at the time, but the suspension 'swam' all over and wasn't too easy to use. One of the few advantages of a high torque idler model is the pitch stability which is often rock-solid.
These springy belt drives do need some fore-knowledge in setting them up and dressing the tonearm cables - letting the cables 'hang' down underneath defeats the suspension largely and as a result they need careful dressing and preferably clamping at the deck exit point in my experience.
Andr'e, you don't need a clamp. A Notts Analogue Spacemat or the expensive Ringmat sorted it without need of anything else I remember.
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tonedeaf
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Oldies are Goldies
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Post by tonedeaf on Apr 27, 2018 8:34:22 GMT
Bit to modern looking for my set up, really want a 70s or early 80s with suspension if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2018 13:35:46 GMT
Andr'e, you don't need a clamp. A Notts Analogue Spacemat or the expensive Ringmat sorted it without need of anything else I remember. I do need a clamp for some Records that are not too flat..
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 27, 2018 13:38:41 GMT
Bit to modern looking for my set up, really want a 70s or early 80s with suspension if possible. Understood! I've always thought the Thorens TD160B a nice looking retro deck - am sure others can comment on how good it is sonically ...
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