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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 16:24:20 GMT
With the availability of cheaper lab type regulated power supplies (where I can set the voltage and current) what advantage does a linear power supply give me to the sound quality?
The reason I ask is that my Pre amp comes with a standard switched mode power supply. The Pro-Ject upgrade PSU seems quite expensive. A LDA linear PSU is quite a bit cheaper, but a lab regulated power supply can be bought cheaper again.
My understanding (Please correct me if I am wrong) is that a linear power supply will supply a contant voltage, but can also limit current. A regulated power supply will maintain a constant current or voltage. I can also possibly limit the output current of a regulated power supply, depending on the model.
So, why shouldn't I use a regulated power supply for my HiFi? What is so special about a linear power supply made for HiFi?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 17:32:31 GMT
Ah what a can of worms....A regulated supply can be switch mode or linear. Regulated means that if set to say 24V it will maintain exactly that voltage as the load current varies, IE it is a constant voltage supply, meaning it has very low internal resistance. A current limited supply gives constant voltage, and hence behaves like lets say a lorry battery, but ONLY up to the current limit. At that point they either become a constant current supply or use what is known as foldback current limiting... which gives a similar effect in practice. Current limiting is mainly used in lab type supplies for when one is experimenting with circuitry and you don't want to see "the big bang theory" in action should you make a mistake!
Generally, a linear regulator will give much lower noise and have much faster response to a step load change than a switch mode one. The advantages of switch mode supplies (SMPSU) are in low cost and high efficiency (hence low heat generation).
Many modern lab type supplies are switch mode but then use a linear regulator after the SMPSU, which with good design can give good results.... So:
"So, why shouldn't I use a regulated power supply for my HiFi?" = No reason why not but as it is possible to set a lab supply to maybe 30 - 60V or more depending on the model you must make sure it is set to the correct voltage and that no one touches the "voltage volume control" !!
"What is so special about a linear power supply made for HiFi?" It costs loads more and loads of bollox will be talked about it! To be fair if a supply is made by a very small company in very small numbers then they will have to charge lots for it to cover overheads and make a profit. Also it can cost more to give it WAF! That's about it.... Generally the only time a really specialised supply is called for is in powering a MC phono stages input amplification. This needs super low noise or the hiss from the regulator will add to that from the phono stage very noticeably as we are talking about an input signal from the MC cart of only 0.00005V or less!!
If getting a lab supply an old one (20+ years or so old) from really good makes like Farnell, TTI, HP, Weir, Lambda etc would be probably best as it would almost certainly be linear and a quality one like those would have been £300 - 800 20 years ago! Only downside is possible noisy controls and/or need to recap it..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 18:31:44 GMT
Thanks Jez. A pretty comprehensive answer. It makes sense that the cheaper regulated supplies are probably an SMPS with a linear regulator. How else can they be so cheap (Less than £60).
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Post by daytona600 on Nov 9, 2014 15:26:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 16:25:15 GMT
There is loads bullshit in that link.... bag of salt required with it!
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Post by daytona600 on Nov 11, 2014 18:09:20 GMT
The Absolute Sound Sanders Magtech receives Editor's Choice in TAS 2015 Buyer's Guide 2015, 2014 ,2013 , 2012 & 2011
5th year running TAS buyers guide
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 18:14:30 GMT
The Absolute Sound Sanders Magtech receives Editor's Choice in TAS 2015 Buyer's Guide 2015, 2014 ,2013 , 2012 & 2011 5th year running TAS buyers guide And your point is? Does that prevent them from talking pseudo scientific bollox in their advertising?
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Post by MartinT on Nov 11, 2014 20:19:14 GMT
The Absolute Sound Sanders Magtech receives Editor's Choice in TAS 2015 Buyer's Guide 2015, 2014 ,2013 , 2012 & 2011 5th year running TAS buyers guide Careful, Scott. You wouldn't be advertising the gear you flog now, would you?
Remember you're a private member here.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 11:35:43 GMT
The Absolute Sound Sanders Magtech receives Editor's Choice in TAS 2015 Buyer's Guide 2015, 2014 ,2013 , 2012 & 2011 5th year running TAS buyers guide And your point is? Does that prevent them from talking pseudo scientific bollox in their advertising? Hi Jez I am no fan of Sanderson believe me, however the person should be careful about pushing this especially as its a product they carry. Linear V's Regulated psu, why not have both an ultra stiff, keenly regulated toroidal tx equipped psu is hard to better, though with PC's you are talking significant amounts of current and high spec regulators with ultra minimal distortion figures are difficult to achieve at higher amperage's. I remember once making a psu for a chap @ overclockers years ago who was looking for 50 AMPS @ 5v Thankfully with the advent of lower powered devices you can now 'get away with' closer to 20A @ 1.8Vdc and lower all good fun though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 12:20:04 GMT
And your point is? Does that prevent them from talking pseudo scientific bollox in their advertising? Hi Jez I am no fan of Sanderson believe me, however the person should be careful about pushing this especially as its a product they carry. Linear V's Regulated psu, why not have both an ultra stiff, keenly regulated toroidal tx equipped psu is hard to better, though with PC's you are talking significant amounts of current and high spec regulators with ultra minimal distortion figures are difficult to achieve at higher amperage's. I remember once making a psu for a chap @ overclockers years ago who was looking for 50 AMPS @ 5v Thankfully with the advent of lower powered devices you can now 'get away with' closer to 20A @ 1.8Vdc and lower all good fun though. Those PC supplies are easily (ish!) done using the SMPSU route.... Plenty of manufacturers reference designs available for common PC rail voltages as well!
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Post by daytona600 on Nov 12, 2014 16:46:10 GMT
There is loads bullshit in that link.... bag of salt required with it!
just a reply martin
Careful, Scott. You wouldn't be advertising the gear you flog now, would you?
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Post by danielquinn on Nov 13, 2014 8:42:28 GMT
I use a bench power supply regulated and linear to feed the maxon dc motor on my modified pink triangle. It works like a dream. Much better than the origin live and others I tried.
The only problem is when baby DQ fiddles with the voltage knob.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 11:50:00 GMT
DQ,
That is exactly what I am worried about. I don't imagine that 30v through a device that takes 20V would be healthy.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 13, 2014 12:18:18 GMT
Apart from the risk of burnout, I think that too much voltage might increase motor cogging which would hurt sound quality.
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Post by danielquinn on Nov 13, 2014 12:28:48 GMT
dc motors do not cog ? - the maxon motor is designed to spin at a considerably higher speed than it is used at .
it isnt a problem for me as it just increases the speed and i know it needs 3.42 volts .
fixed bench power supplies are availabe or ones that dont have easy rotary voltage change .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 13:06:28 GMT
I could knock up linear regulators for anyone interested. PM me.
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Post by danielquinn on Nov 13, 2014 13:24:38 GMT
there you go cagey .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 14:15:22 GMT
Thanks. Unfortunately I ordered one yesterday.
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 13, 2014 14:21:18 GMT
Shall we change your user name to Wonky Cage?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 17:24:33 GMT
Or Cagey Custard?
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