Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 19:35:32 GMT
It seemed like a bit of a "Fan boy" statement Jammy, but I would argue that certain NVA offer excellent value for money. However with all HiFi products the law of diminishing returns also applies. How much better are the 30W amps compared to the 80W amps? The same goes for the speaker cable. There are products at excellent price points, and then the products for people with deeper pockets.
Direct selling certainly helps, but comparing the NVA product line, which product in each category offers the best VFM?
|
|
|
Post by jammy on Oct 16, 2014 21:03:59 GMT
It seemed like a bit of a "Fan boy" statement Jammy, but I would argue that certain NVA offer excellent value for money. However with all HiFi products the law of diminishing returns also applies. How much better are the 30W amps compared to the 80W amps? The same goes for the speaker cable. There are products at excellent price points, and then the products for people with deeper pockets. Direct selling certainly helps, but comparing the NVA product line, which product in each category offers the best VFM? I hate the word "Fan Boy" but if it means being a big fan of something, then "Fan Boy" I am. I hope RD's statement below will remain - Because it is pertinent to our discussion. "They keep on about £500 for a TIS. Why can't they read, it is £50 per 10cm plus £60 termination. So a 40cm set is £260 not £500. You would have to go to 80cm set to go to £460 and it would have to be 90cm to get over £500 at £510!!!!!" As to which product in each category offers the best VFM - I would suggest that every NVA components SQ improves the further up the price scale you go and the VFM remains constant the further up the scale you go.......ie the best sounding gear RD can produce at any given price point.
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Oct 16, 2014 21:09:25 GMT
Anything? Even the TIS at about £500? I have only ever heard the SSC in my system, and it was pretty good, but for me £500 is audiofool territory. Others may be willing to pay that, but it's beyond my self imposed limit. Just to clarify the point, the sound chord at about £20 for a metre set would be value for money. Considering the material costs, there can't be much profit in it. The TIS is 25 times more expensive, but is it 25 times better?Umm - yes, I think it might be actually!
Although the TIS can be had for quite a bit less than £500 for shorter lengths.
I recently compared the whole NVA i/c range, RD loaned me SSC, SSPii and the TIS. I already have the SC.
The SC is good - but the TIS is way better and is the most transparent cable I have heard. I'm keeping the Epiphany Atratus III as my i/c of choice due to cost and its somewhat more easy-going nature - the TIS was a bit too much warts'n'all for some system configurations. But in the right system I've not heard a better interconnect, although I have far from heard them all!
So to go back to the OP, my high VFM/SQ gear would include ....
- Epiphany Acoustic Atratus III cables at around £100 a pair, if you want cheaper than that then I probably would go for NVA SSC, but the Atratus III is worth the extra imho. - Tisbury passive pre at around £140 - Beresford Bushmaster DAC - PowerInspired AG1500 mains regenerator at around £700 these days, I think - Amptastic Mini-1 chip amp is astonishing at £100
Probably more to come, I'll mention them when I think of them!
-
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Oct 16, 2014 21:14:59 GMT
I'm not so sure I'm so keen on our one and only banned member posting here by proxy. On this occasion I'll let your post stand Jammy.
|
|
|
Post by jammy on Oct 16, 2014 21:18:37 GMT
Cheers Chris.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Oct 16, 2014 21:51:25 GMT
The 'at arm's length' comment has been dealt with. We won't be encouraging any more of that.
However, the comment about lower pricing is rather specious, I feel. To most people who give a fig about these things, the value of a pair of interconnect cables is judged by its price per metre length. That is the currency, the scale and locus within which people's minds work when comparing cables they might consider buying. "How much for a 1m pair?" - that's where most people's comparison benchmark is. To say that you can get a shorter length (60% shorter) for a much lower price is fine, but at £560 for a one metre set, it's a £560 cable. Like most of us, I don't have a problem with cables at that price, but I shan't be buying one from NVA or anyone else.
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Oct 17, 2014 6:24:03 GMT
However, the comment about lower pricing is rather specious, I feel. To most people who give a fig about these things, the value of a pair of interconnect cables is judged by its price per metre length. That's a very strange statement, Chris!
To me the value of anything is how much I actually pay for it. To set an arbitrary standard of length is errrr ... arbitrary, and in no way necessarily related to the actual cost paid by the buyer for the function of connecting components together! If my system configuration can manage with say a 40cm pair at lower cost, and the supplier is happy to sell it that way, then that lower cost is the value it has for me.
Sure, many cables aren't available to custom length at lower cost, but those that are must in all fairness be given credit for it, imho.
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Oct 17, 2014 7:03:13 GMT
It not a strange statement it is a ridiculous statement. The price of an Interconnect is mushed by you pay for it and that is determined by the length you need. Not some the Theoretical 1m valuation comparison.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Oct 17, 2014 7:10:30 GMT
No, sorry Jerry, perhaps I'm different to the rest of the world then? When I first encounter a pair of interconnects, one of the things I 'm interested in doing is to look & see how much they cost. In order to compare it to others I know, or are available elsewhere, I prefer to know how much it is for a metre set, as that is my benchmark for comparison. Almost everyone publishes a price for a 1m set. Does everyone publish the price of a 40cm set? - No.
If I know that cable A costs £200 for a 40cm pair and £450 for a 1m pair, but the only information I have about cable B is that it costs £449 for a 1m pair, then my simple mind thinks of them both as £450 cables. 1m is the standard that is most common, so that is where I begin my thought process. If that isn't how your mind works (or anyone else's), then apologies for my idiocy & I'll just sit in the corner with my dunce hat on.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Oct 17, 2014 7:28:43 GMT
. The price of an Interconnect is mushed by you pay for it and that is determined by the length you need. Not some the Theoretical 1m valuation comparison. I think I understand what that means - it looks like between us, we have covered the ridiculous and the nonsense! People often compare information about cables when they are not buying them, do they not? Looking at this thread, you will see that happening right before your very eyes. In those cases, the benchmark by which people compare prices is 1m, whether you understand that or not. The length someone buys is a different matter altogether. A ridiculous statement would be stating that one cable is cheaper than another if the cheaper one is too short to do the job and the other isn't, when they are the same price for the same length.
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Oct 17, 2014 7:36:45 GMT
I think this is getting a bit 'political'. The point's been made and the pricing info is available for those to interpret it how they wish - so time to move on, imo.
More great value products I have come across in my hifi wandering ....
- RDC support cones and stuff, been around for literally decades, but so have I! - and am none the worse for it. - Q-Acoustics speakers - little dyna-mites! But they do need amps with serious current to hear them at their best. - Kralk BC30 speakers - I heard these little fellas at Whittlebury this year and was amazed at the price of £350 or so a pair. UK designed and made, too - Yorkshire lads, no less! Selling direct obviously keeps the price down - they sounded way better than £350 would suggest to me. - VP Dust Buster - gell stuff in a small jar stylus cleaner - does what it says on the tin and easy and safe to use.
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Oct 17, 2014 7:45:16 GMT
Oh, and my old favourite the Hitachi OFC interconnects - sometimes available on eBay for a £tenner or less for a 1.5m pair. Really good if a bit soft in character high up, but with meaty bass. A nice cable for peanuts.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Oct 17, 2014 8:01:16 GMT
No politics from me Jerry. Simply defending my point of view.
|
|
|
Post by id4578 on Oct 17, 2014 10:04:40 GMT
A funny old little arguement about cables above?
When I'm comparing like foods in the supermarket, I compare their price per kg, not their absolute prices. Surely comparing prices of anything like for like, you have to compare the price per same quantity?
My contribution to the thread is simply anything bought secondhand at average market prices. Unless you break it or it has some kind of consumable involved, then it is completely free. Just that its monetary value is held elsewhere and exchanged back for the same cash when you sell it on. Sadly I often can't afford to have my money tied up too much.. one day!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 10:31:31 GMT
Criticism was pointed at SLIC because of the price, and lack of specifications. The TIS is a cable which costs more (when you compare like for like) and has less specifications published. This is why it falls outside my consideration of a cable that offers VFM. When I need a 1m cable, the price of a 40cm cable is irrelevant, as the missing 60cm make it difficult to connect.
The MC5000 fitted with Nuetrik plugs otpr similar gives very good vfm, as do most studio cables.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2014 10:52:09 GMT
The irony of this is that I recently discovered that NVA SC's gel very well with my system, now if I could find another set of SSC's to go with the pair I have here for evaluation purposes I may well be throwing a little business in the general direction of a certain Doc Honeydew.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 10:58:00 GMT
I am glad you are enjoying them Dave. NVA offer a 30 day no quibble trial period, so you have nothing to lose if you were to order a set from NVA.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2014 11:15:11 GMT
I need longer lengths of speaker cable as I have had to re-site my power amp to allow for the short length of the SC's (50cm). I am currently running Cable Talk Talk 3 which is an exceptionally good performer for a budget cable, however in light of the remarkably lucid performance of the SC's I am now wondering whether I should evaluate NVA LS2 or 3 first.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 11:21:51 GMT
Perhaps Jammy could advise? Failing that, ask the Doc either through his forum, or his ebay shop.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Oct 17, 2014 11:28:55 GMT
Do you know whether the Doc offers the same returns policy on his speaker cables?
|
|