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Post by palace on Aug 19, 2023 19:22:15 GMT
Last Thursday I went to Malvern driven by my son to see my friend Mark Manwaring-White AKA Malvern Audio Research together with my Croft phono stage built in a Vitale amplifier case that Len Gregory (The Cartridgeman) asked Mr Croft to build for me, Len was using a Croft to develop his cartridges I was one of his guinea-pigs, I preferred the Croft to several I tried including an EAR 834p.
After Len's sad death, I have been searching for a replacement for my now elderly Musicmaster cartridge, I listened to a lot including the Hana ML, I spoke to Mark who is a Hana dealer, I pointed out the Croft was moving MI/MM only. (Mark had made it dual 6.3v as well as 12.6v some years ago).
Mark said he could fit a pair of SUT's in the Croft case, which on our arrival he proceeded to do, he fitted a pair of Silver plated copper phono sockets, then a pair of SUT's some wiring into the Croft equaliser circuitry & bingo a MC compatible Croft.
To make it easier & quicker for me set up, with my sausage fingers Mark measured the stylus position of the Musicmaster on my Hadcock 242 Silver arm Mark then fitted the Hana ML cartridge. The arm when fitted at home placed the stylus on the Audio Origami (Seb) protractor that I align to the arm pivot with a small Back & Decker red laser for levelling shelves placing the stylus within a gnats toger of perfect.
I have listened to the Hana ML for a few hours now, at 2 grams tracking weight bias set low, it has slowly filled out, bass has deepened sound stage is spreading, treble incise full, but not harsh, I was a initially a little concerned as to whether my 242 arm would be ok with the 3 gram heavier Hana ML even though it has an XTC counterweight, & it's mass places it in the middle mass of arms...
No such qualms now, I am not going to compare the 2 cartridges after 25 odd years a clean slate.
So far the the ML has handled with aplomb everything from Palestrina to Wish You Were Here. Playing at the moment Dave Brubeck greatest hits & I'm not a jazz lover. I am looking forward to the Hana ML running in I have read it can take 40-60 hours.
As for the Croft it still sounds like my/a Croft & is still compatible with higher output cartridges though unlikely to be needed, the Hana ML Croft have transpired to be a brilliant sounding combination.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 19, 2023 20:17:46 GMT
I still have the rare Croft SIP preamp with MC phono stage that I bought a lifetime ago from Audio T. It's a good sounding circuit. Sadly no longer used as I have moved on from records.
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Post by petea on Aug 20, 2023 9:51:50 GMT
What a super result. Enjoy your listening!  |
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Post by palace on Aug 21, 2023 11:47:43 GMT
Now with a few hours on the Hana ML & the SUT's in the Croft the soundstage is opening out even more, both side to side & fore & aft with height beginning to emerge , the bass is sounding deeper, mid range & treble sounding sweeter but not in a bad treacly way, the combination also has got slightly louder than it initially was, I turned volume down a tad.. In my earlier post I forgot to include the Hadcock 242 Silver Plus with XTC counterweight it has always been a very good arm it is helping to ease my transition from the moving iron Musicmaster sound to the current Hana ML moving coil so far I am surprised just how good this set up is.
I have stopped myself from doing an in depth review as I used to do for Len, I was cleaning files on my PC & found a reply from Len to one such exchange on the then new Musicaster. The same perceptions apply to any component.
len Gregory 09:41 Keep this message at the top of your inbox
To: john.
mailto:thecartridgeman@talktalk.net
Hello John;
Many thanks for your ongoing report – it does take quite some time for components to sonically integrate and to perform optimally. I would go so far as to say that another month or so will probably bring even more informational awareness to your listening. Having been encouraged by your earlier reports I have surreptitiously released a few more MusicMaster units onto the market, and am happy to say that the feedback, whilst not necessarily as informed as or perceptive, has been totally positive. I am just so pleased that the benefits/advantages of the improvements I have made to the cartridge are so very much appreciated and significant as far as you are concerned, it is always a risky business when you get to the refinement of a design – the last thing you want is the ‘smoke and mirrors’ syndrome, or to engender the discussion as to whether one has created a ‘difference’ rather than an improvement. I know that the changes should show a vast improvement but of course unless a particular system is capable of manifesting the improvement it can be a thankless task trying to convince people that the difference is worth the extra expenditure – after all I doubt whether just any arm and a so-so phono- stage would be capable of such critical signal analysis. Also, you have to have someone with a good set of ears to hear with, and someone whose integrity you can trust – so thank you, once again for your help.
I take it that the family is well?
Best wishes
Leonard G.
The Cartridge Man Ltd.
Vat. Reg.no. 802-4944-42
co.reg.no. 4451444
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Post by palace on Aug 26, 2023 20:19:28 GMT
Tuesday last I drove the 135 miles to a concerned Mark at Malvern Audio Research, I had lost the right channel on the Croft phono stage.
Mark took a few minutes working methodically using one of his oscilloscopes to find one of my diy pure Silver wires had fractured on one of the 2 volume pots, he then re made the joints on both volume pots on the front to be safe. I had missed the cause when I looked as I had concentrated on the new wiring at the back of the stage, which were of course perfect, The fault lay out of sight to me behind the front panel, it was my bad as I should & indeed do know better.
After the repair he inserted the Croft in to his reference system in a large room using enormous 6' high horns, a superb 12 wpc valve amp + pre & multi motor turntable fitted with his well run in Hana ML, he played a variety of albums, the Croft was not out of place it sounded like it belonged there
Having set the arm slightly tail down, 2 grams tracking weight plus a few more hours on the Hana ML & the SUT's in the Croft the soundstage is opening out even more, both side to side & fore & aft with height beginning to emerge , the bass is sounding deeper, mid range & treble sounding sweeter & more natural. The Musicmaster excelled at digging out information, I am getting used to the fuller bass & different tonal balance of the Hana ML. Svetlanov conducting Boradin's In the Steppes of Central Asia magical, Lou Reed Walk on the Wild Side, Herbie Flowers slightly deeper double bass & overlaid electric bass threading through the whole track. Floyd intro to Wish you Were Here equally quiet background as the Musicmaster however when Mick Mason's drums come in a lot more power...
In my earlier post I forgot to acknowledge the part played by my modified Transcriptors/Michell Hydraulic Reference turntable & the pivotal role (pun) of the Hadcock 242 Silver Plus with XTC counterweight it has always been a very good arm Len Gregory recommended/sold it to me, Len had updated the earlier versions of the Hadcock arms for George Hadcock changing the head off set angle & the damped stainless steel arm tube.
Replacing the flexible counterweight stub on the early 242 arm with a firmly mounted rigid one was my idea, incorporated in later arms. it's familiarity as with the Croft is helping to ease my transition from 25 years of Cartridgeman Moving Iron Musicmaker's to the later Musicmaster sound to the current Hana ML moving coil so far I am amazed just how good this Hydraulic Reference, Hana, Hadcock & Croft combination is.
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Post by palace on Aug 28, 2023 17:40:17 GMT
20 LP's now still improving now the suspension has settled I have raised the arm a tad, music snapped in to focus. Unlike other cartridges when the top is parallel to the record the stylus is near the 92 deg optimum I believe I am virtually there. I have only just notice the gold cartridge top matches the platter   |
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Post by palace on Aug 30, 2023 10:28:45 GMT
With the platter of my Hydraulic Reference locked in place using tissue paper between unsprung platter & turntable deck . One last check using the Audio Origami (Seb) alignment protractor set up with my semi-unipivot Hadcock 242 Silver Plus, using my small Black & Decker laser to project along the protractor datum line, then lifting the arm a little centered on the pivot pin then replacing the arm. With the stylus on the protractor center mark, photo from above looks just about perfect as is th Hana ML & SUT's fitted in the Croft by Mark .  |
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Post by palace on Sept 6, 2023 14:22:01 GMT
Mark Manwaring-White dropped friends off at Heathrow yesterday, as he was only 10 miles or so away & had paid the disingenuous ULEZ fee Mark popped in, after listening with comments of approbation re bass soundstage etc. Mark checked the Croft over & made a couple of minor wiring alterations, the Croft/Hadcock/Hana ML combination sounded better than ever, though there was with nothing playing, a still just audible 50 hz hum. And unidentified rhythmic pop's when with the arm up & volume on full, being careful not to touch the cartridge as it would blow the OTA Quad 57s to pieces.
I have said before that I live near the top of a hill in RF central due to being surrounded by 2 near airports (communications & radar) mobile phone masts & town centre buildings having a plethora of police, cab etc communication transmitters.
Mark postulated that a different transformer might improve things, after a short while he headed off on the 3.5 hour journey back to Malvern.
I woke this morning with a memory of articles 30 years ago about putting plugs/covers over unused phono sockets the Croft has 2 the now unused but available MM/MI inputs.
I used Anti-Interference Shielding Isolated Radiation-Proof Plain Conductive Cloth Tape to seal the open ends of two brass phono plugs.
I plugged them into the 2 free sockets, bingo no audible hum arm up full volume slight valve noise no hum no pop's, Hana ML in the Hadcock 242 Silver plus & Marks SUT mods to the Croft sound beautiful together. I'm very happy, particularly when I bear in mind the Hana ML still has a while to go before it is run in.
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Post by palace on Sept 7, 2023 15:14:15 GMT
Today since there is now no hum & the SUT's if not the Hana ML stylus should have settled, I decided to adjust the VTA/SRA, initially I had lowered the arm height through the sibilance area I'm quite used to the requirements since Lens Music Maker/Master cartridges I used for 25 years the correct SRA/VTA was essential & rewarding.
Though the bass mid's & treble were very good. Critical listening indicated that last hint of "sparkle" was missing; I raised the arm 2mm, which if as has been calculated by others on a 9"-10" pickup arm like my Hadcock 242 Silver plus 4mm = 1 degree of stylus angle, if this calculation is correct I changed it by half or.5 of a degree, there was that "sparkle", that small change added a surprising amount of low level information as on Floyd's Wish you Were Here Listening to track 1 Shine on you Crazy Diamond the subtle bell/xylophone notes? in the quiet opening prior to Mick Masons drums, on to S&G Parsley Sage Rosemary & Thyme more reverb on voices. even on Sing When Your Swinging track 3 Nicole Kidman duetting with Robbie Williams singing Something Stupid, kidman's voice sounds quite "Musical" I'm evaluating a few of my classical records where the Musicmaster exceled as I type
I will make no more adjustments until the Hana ML has 100 hours on it as suggested by Mark Manwaring-White when he was here.
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Post by palace on Sept 8, 2023 17:36:19 GMT
One of those too late/stable door moments. Having spent time setting up the Hana ML on my Hydraulic Reference TT with Hadcock 242 Silver plus arm & 2 X SUT's fitted in to my Croft phono stage by Mark Manwaring-White. I arrived at a very satisfactory outcome I have just read a 2020 article/review of th Hana ML written by Vedran Simunovic on Soundstage! Australia I could have avoided most of the anxiety involved adjusting VTA/SRA with a naked stylus/cantilever with my sausage fingers: as below, I quote "HANA’s stylus guard, about which I had a reasonably strong feeling (proved later to be correct) that, either by design or by accident, this lowly, often neglected piece of plastic has been shaped in a way that resolves the geometry of the tonearm/cartridge/record system in one fell swoop Simply and elegantly, the azimuth and the vertical tracking angle of the HANA cartridge will be spot-on if the bottom of the stylus guard rests flat on top of the record. Anyone who wrestled with azimuth and VTA for any length of time will surely appreciate HANA’s stylus guard as much as I ended up doing." I put the stylus guard on amazingly exactly as reported it was absolutely correct, I got out the Audio Origami protractor aligned it to the Hadcock arm pivot post with my little shelf aligning laser, the stylus was hovering exactly over the mark on the protractor. www.soundstageaustralia.com/index.php/reviews/456-hana-ml-and-mh-moving-coil-cartridges |
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Post by palace on Sept 10, 2023 8:56:12 GMT
On another forum it was questioned whether the Hana SL stylus guard would work the same. I have just simply Googled Hana SL stylus guard it seems E. S. & M type cartridges all appear to have the same stylus guard as below photo, since all cartridges are of a similar shape, though stylus profile differs it would seem a distinct possibility. Anyone with a Hana SL in a position to verify, just clip it on and see...  |
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Post by palace on Sept 11, 2023 15:44:06 GMT
There is little more for me to say, The Hana ML moving coil cartridge with an aluminium cantilever & fine line stylus replaces a Cartridgeman Musicmaster moving iron cartridge with a fine line stylus & Sapphire cantilever. that Len Gregory used me as at least one of his Guinea pigs to test.
I have never known a cartridge dig out so much information from the grove as the Musicmaster except perhaps a London Decca also a moving iron but with effectively no cantilever Len approved of them, with his demise I listened to a lot of cartridges with John Wright retiring from London Decca the new owners being an unknown quantity to me the Decca was eliminated. Though like the Decca the Hana ML would work in my Hadcock 242 Silver plus. pick up arm.
I chose the Hana ML having heard the one Mark Manwaring Wight uses on his TT at his Malvern Acoustic Research listening room. It also gave me the opportunity to listen through Marks Audio Detail phono stage to the Step Up Transformers' he uses & was to put in my Croft phono stage that Len asked Mr Croft to make for me.
The Musicmaster retail cost was £1600ish roughly half as much again as that of the Hana ML which is still running in, detail is satisfactorily improving, tracking seems to be on a par, Len as far as I know never listened to popular music only classical, at which the Musicmaster exceled on the other hand the Hana ML is no slouch either but being a little fuller in sound offer's a slightly different perspective though quite ethereal as on a William Byrd Mass for Five Voices a mono recording on Argo Cambridge Queens College Hall & on records like Floyd's Wish you Were Here recorded at EMI studio now Abby Road, due I suspect to having like the Musicmaster a fine line stylus having no grove noise thus giving a silent background with sparkle when the bell/xylophone or electronic notes floating in mid air, helped by my Okki Nokki RCM bought years ago for my 65th by my wife, Mick Masons drums have more realistic power though not noticeably deeper.
I'm looking forward to the next 40 plus hours as the Hana ML finishes running in, I think the Croft SUT's have done as has the 20 year old Croft phono stage. After 25 years using Len's cartridges this has been a much softer landing than I expected.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 11, 2023 19:32:05 GMT
I have a stereo William Byrd Mass for Five Voices on Argo sitting in my collection. Wonderful recording but most on Argo are quite superb.
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Post by palace on Sept 11, 2023 20:21:00 GMT
I have a stereo William Byrd Mass for Five Voices on Argo sitting in my collection. Wonderful recording but most on Argo are quite superb. jules68 I must agree, if it's stereo I will start looking to compare since the mono has layers of voices depth & a great spatial quality. Among several Argo recordings I have is ZNF I Britten Noye's Fludde they started off well & carried on in that vein. |
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Post by palace on Sept 14, 2023 8:53:52 GMT
There is a not so surprising addendum on the whole Croft phono stage with onboard SUT's & Hydraulic Reference/Hadcock 242 Silver plus & Hana ML, combination, today playing Hazel O'Connor "Breaking Glass" the original vinyl LP bought at the time of release, a well sung, produced & recorded album sounding both vocally & musically harsh & incredibly gentle & tender, I realised somewhere on side one that I was actually listening to & enjoying the music rather than just hearing rather than listening whilst trying to seek the last nuance of performance. So short of a bit more time on the Hana ML I think it's all pretty much there.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 14, 2023 10:38:14 GMT
Hazel O'Connor "Breaking Glass" A one-of-a-kind stunner. |
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Post by palace on Sept 25, 2023 15:09:13 GMT
It seems that I was still coming to terms with the fine adjustment of my Hana ML the Croft phono stage that Mark Manwaring White modified is working as it should, as is the Hadcock tonearm. Using a Hydraulic Reference turntable makes setting the tracking weight a bit of a project I have to put my stylus scales on something on the platter to raise it to the height of the gold weights & PTFE pads with an LP on top, the Hana ML is even more critical than previous cartridges with my Hadcock arm setting the VTF just 2 mm higher adds 0.17 grams so that is what I removed to bring it back to 2 grams VTF effectively reducing the cartridges VTF by 0.17 g. Further careful setting up my Hana ML using digital calipers rather than by eye to get the stylus gauge center dot to read from the height of record surface on my Hydraulic Reference TT using an average thickness LP, I raised the gauge support 3mm & removed another 0.30 g VTF to give the suggested in the manual 2g VTF whilst remembering the center dot is recessed. Hopefully this should be the last adjustments required I will not be adjusting for 180g or 200g records.  |
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Post by palace on Sept 30, 2023 11:56:51 GMT
The Croft phono stage SUT's & hard wiring are now encased & hidden behind a hot glued in place cover made of stiff card covered with Anti-Interference Shielding Isolated Radiation-Proof Plain Conductive Cloth Tape.
The 2 small SUT's are in the left hand rear corner of the case their top's hot glued to the floor of the case & hard wired to the existing Croft equaliser circuit & also an extra pair of silver plated copper phono sockets for the input's in pre-existing holes as this is a Croft Vitale amplifier case, to the right of the existing 4 input & output sockets which are both still functional.
Strangely the extra shielding has been needed since over the course of a week 3 new sets of neighbours have moved in & despite my 120 clip on ferrites RFI/EMI & hum is apparent occasionally on the Croft phono & on my WIFI connected PC screen though the wired with coax & cat 8 Virgin box/TV is unaffected.
Mark Manwaring-White when he did the work had put an iron/steel plate across the case near the non toroidal transformer to shield the SUT's I added the SUT cover to remove virtually! the last bit of 50Hz hum. As with 10-1 SUT's it seems 10 x more sensitive to radiated hum.
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Post by palace on Oct 6, 2023 20:08:08 GMT
Despite my previous efforts the 50hz hum picked up by the SUT's or probably their wiring since they are cased in mu-metal in the Croft phono stage though reduced was still apparent.
Today I took delivery of 20 meters of 20mm wide sticky back copper foil, I also found a piece of stainless steel that exactly fitted across from the rear of the case linking up to the plate running centrally that the valves/tubes & equalisation circuit are mounted on.
I mounted the stainless plate in the Croft, between the transformer and the plate fitted by Mark Manwaring-White. I then lined the case around the transformer with copper foil plugging or covering all gaps I could see, I also covered the top/lid with foil over the transformer area.
The end result is literally no 50hz hum even at full volume with stylus up. indeed barely any noise with my ear on either OTA Quad 57. I will find out whether anything the new neighbours have will get around my mods.
Whilst I was installing the croft in the system & ensuring that it all worked with no shorts etc I spotted on a nearby shelf 2 of Len Gregory (The Cartridgeman) Isolator's from the days I helped test/evaluate them for Len, I was tempted to fit one then and there however it then occurred to me that the Hana ML was still running in, so I will wait until it is run in to make a more accurate appraisal.
For the non TT users an Isolator is 2 metal plates separated by a rigid foam layer that glues to the cartridge & bolts to the head shell and break's up resonances in arm & cartridge. The Funk Firm Houdini is a modern interpretation.
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Post by palace on Oct 7, 2023 13:06:19 GMT
After attacking my Croft phono-stage yesterday with copper foil & an extra steel plate separating the phono bits like the SUT's fitted by my friend Mark Manwaring-White from the transformer & PSU parts resulting in a silent background though I must add the Hana ML fine line stylus on a clean LP has effectively no grove noise.
Today despite owning & listening to the 1973 album The Very Best of Melanie for 47 years, I listened to a "new" album, Melanie's rendition of 1966 Jagger/Richards "Ruby Tuesday" was mesmerising I have heard the original Stones version & 10 or 12 cover versions over the years, today it was like hearing this track for the first time I'm nonplussed, I absolutely love it. I'm stunned listening to this album, for me it has not dated, the emotion in Melanie's voice is palpable on all of the tracks & the backing musicians also deserve praise as do the recording engineers and producers.
The same was true of American Pie by Don Mclean little subtle nuances were now audible before lost in the background.
On every LP I have tried the same has been true, bass deeper & cleaner the same with the rest of the audible spectrum music hanging in space broader sound stage past the walls where appropriate the OTA Quad 57's were never obtrusive are now not there.
I find this reminiscent of some of the findings by those on this forum deeply involved in a digital journey who remove noise in the digital domain, surprisingly because of living in RF central I attacked digital noise first, with clip on ferrites & using cat 8 ethernet cable which is screened unlike cat 5/6 which improved audio and TV picture & Virgin box recordings & Wi-Fi to this PC.
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