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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2023 10:51:57 GMT
Shamelessly taken from Facebook. This diagram is similar to many others published by DAC vendors but also contains subjective opinions which you may or may not agree with. I have always preferred Minimum Phase filters, originally developed by Meridian, in my DACs. My previous LKS called it SLOW-M and my current Gustard calls it GENTLE. Whatever it's called, MP shifts the inevitable ringing to after the transient, making musical dynamics sound more natural. I also hear a better soundstage and note decay, such as the shimmer of cymbals. Others will have different perceptions. What settings do you use?  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 22, 2023 11:19:41 GMT
All new to me
I will read with interest
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bencat
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Post by bencat on Jul 22, 2023 11:38:20 GMT
Interesting reading but as is often the case in digital and different mfg companies there seems no agreed way to describe these different filters . On my Delius DAC there are 6 filters and here is how they are described . Would any of these be minimum phase ?
FilterFilterFilterFilter – Anti-Imaging Filter Setting
Delius offers a choice of 4 interpolation filters for 5 sample rates (32kS/s,
44.1kS/s, 48kS/s, 88.2kS/s and 96kS/s) and 6 for two (192kS/s and 176.4kS/s).
The filters offer differing responses. In each case, Filters 1-4 are symmetrical
filters (with time response before a transition the mirror image of time response
after). Filter 1 offers the sharpest cut-off, least Nyquist imaging but longest
energy smear. Filter 4 gives the gentlest roll-off (usually with significant Nyquist
imaging) but the shortest transient response with least energy smear. Filter 5 is
a Gaussian filter, and Filter 6 is an asymmetrical filter – there is almost no time
response prior to the initial step.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2023 11:48:04 GMT
"Filters 1-4 are symmetrical filters", these are linear filters, the same response before and after the transient. These filters tend to sound sharp (Gustard's "VIVID").
"Filter 5 is a Guassian filter", not sure about this one.
"Filter 6 is an asymmetrical filter" is a Minimum Phase filter due to their description "there is almost no time response prior to the initial step".
Which one do you like listening to?
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bencat
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Post by bencat on Jul 22, 2023 11:58:37 GMT
Hi Martin thank you for the english translation I understand this a bit more I freely admit that until I asked this question I had very little idea what these were from the descriptions . As it suggests a little later in the manual when I got the Delius I used each filter at a time all for about a day . Of them all the ones I liked were 5 and 6 and after a little more listening i have settled for 6 as the filter I have used ever since . In my view it just lets the music through and sounds more real .
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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2023 12:13:16 GMT
Of them all the ones I liked were 5 and 6 and after a little more listening i have settled for 6 as the filter I have used ever since . In my view it just lets the music through and sounds more real . Your filter 6 equates to my "GENTLE", or Minimum Phase. I agree, it's the most natural sounding filter to my ears. |
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Post by wannarock2 on Jul 22, 2023 15:52:26 GMT
slow filter  |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2023 16:56:57 GMT
slow filter Is your preference? On what DAC? |
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Post by wannarock2 on Jul 22, 2023 17:29:38 GMT
Should have been more explicit: ‘Gentle filter’ on Gustard x26p. The Vivid filter is interesting, but demands your attention. That may not make sense, but the gentle filter takes the edge off of the music. That ‘edge’ is interesting, but when I listen to music it is to relax/meditate.  |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2023 18:45:04 GMT
The Vivid filter is interesting, but demands your attention. That may not make sense, but the gentle filter takes the edge off of the music. That's an interesting take. For me, the Vivid filter is like edge enhancement in a photo. It can sound striking at first, but it's tiring and can sound false on natural instruments. So yes, the Gentle filter takes the 'edge' off music but not in a bad way, for me it enhances transients and timbre. |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 23, 2023 10:40:45 GMT
Here are a couple of captures from the ESS documentation of MP-SLOW (Minimum Phase SLOW roll-off). The frequency response shows the least amount of ultrasonic spuriae above 20kHz of all the filter types.  The impulse response shows the classic MP ringing all after the event, producing the most natural sounding result.  |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 21, 2024 22:05:21 GMT
The stair-step model doesn't exist! A very useful learning video.
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Post by nicholas on Mar 21, 2024 22:39:55 GMT
Excellent presentation explaining that which I thought I knew... Thanks for posting this MartinT. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 22, 2024 15:21:33 GMT
Tape hiss - I thought. Then he said it !
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NAS📶 > Gustard x26p DAC > Benchmark LA4 Pre-Amp > NAD M22-V2 Amplifier > Revel F228Be Speakers
