|
Post by MikeMusic on Sept 18, 2014 9:13:06 GMT
Thought this deserved it's own thread. They sound good too ! My older conical system at Scalford
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 10:34:09 GMT
They are a labor of obsession I not heard them but imagine they need a lot of room to breathe
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Sept 18, 2014 12:14:29 GMT
5 drivers per channel Suitably amplified too
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Sept 18, 2014 13:36:34 GMT
Thanks guys - Mikemusic invited me along here.
Yes, labour of love and lots of evolution from the first 2 way through 3 and 4 and 5 way. Driver and horn shape evolution too, from the conicals to Tractix / Exponential on mid bass.
I've loved every minute of it and would say to anyone who's thinking about a speaker project - jump in. There's so much to learn and it can be done on a reasonable budget.
If anyone is interesting in dropping by for a listen - that would be fun...
The most recent evolution to be able to stream from USB to I2S to my a DIYaudio project (called Najda), an all singing all dancing DSP / 4 DAC / Pre / ADC / crossover system. The control board for this was purchased and I (like many others, housed and powered it). I was amazed at this units ability to pass through an analogue signal with pretty much total transparency - It performed as well as my Puresound L10 pre and existing DAC solution for both analogue and digital. Add to that all the other goodies that DSP brings, like proper time alignment (important on a system like this, and manually implemented room correction (used carefully it really tames bass room modes - I do not use it on the upper 3 channels as there is not need in my system / space). I was using Coaxial or optical SPDIF input but I2S input is that bit purer and better. It also means I can stream upto 384Kbit/s sampled flacs. Which is interesting.
To answer John's point about space to breathe - Not really I have them in a room some 5.5m x 4.5m with a slightly vaulted ceiling... Set out wide and the tapped horns in the corners it works really well. Yes, I'd like a converted barn to at least try them in someday:) but they work very well and blow me away everything I put some interesting music on.
If there's interest I can write a summary of the components and crossover frequencies etc and why I came to this was of cutting the frequency spectrum cake.
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Sept 18, 2014 14:23:49 GMT
A converted barn where we both live would be nice but a trifle expensive
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 15:06:55 GMT
Thinking strongly of going down a similar active digital route to your Steve
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Sept 18, 2014 16:19:20 GMT
Thinking strongly of going down a similar active digital route to your Steve Yes, I saw your thread on amps and replied. I used 3 T-amps for the mid, upper mid and tweeter way back and now use 3 little Icon Audio MP3 EL-84 5W SET amps on those channels - good value and very sweet sounding. Mind you with the drivers / horns at ~114dB/w, and the ribbon tweeters at 111dB/w I don't need much power. I do use 2 big T-amps on the bass - Nice control of the 2 sets of 15" cones and needing 5 amps, space saving is somewhat of a consideration:) If you want to come over for a natter about active and a listen you'd be most welcome. Could even have a little gathering - You, Mikemusic and MartinT (they are pretty local to me) if they'd be up for it sometime. I can't remember how far you were away from me though.
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 17:12:38 GMT
Yes sounds good I am certainly up for that Be good to chat to someone who has gone down the active route
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Sept 18, 2014 17:14:59 GMT
Sundays best for me.....
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Sept 18, 2014 18:44:17 GMT
Quite a change in design since I heard them, Steve (when they were close to your Scalford photo). How would you describe the change in sound?
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 18, 2014 18:51:35 GMT
Sunday afternoons works for me
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Sept 18, 2014 18:55:39 GMT
Quite a change in design since I heard them, Steve (when they were close to your Scalford photo). How would you describe the change in sound? Yes, lots of changes - Drivers and horns and active / DSP. The change has improved the bass control / room interaction. Different bass horns / drivers have given more texture and punch and a fuller lower bass. Better drivers on the upper mid (not the legendary Vitavox S2's (refurbed by Mike at Vitavox) and on wooden tractrix horns has really made a big improvement in realism and easy of listening if that make sense. The conicals on the upper mid (smallest horns) were a bit too direct and in your face. The tractrix blend better into the room and sound more natural and realistic. Female vocals / guitars / violins etc can sound stunning. The S2's are also faster and keep up with the most demanding orchestral pieces in a way that I'd not heard before. BTW I don't use a DSP X/O on the S2's or the Raal Lazy ribbon tweeters - these are just 1st order on caps. 3uF and 1.1uF respectively. There is method to the this. I measure each driver in room from the listening position with a calibrated mic using HolmImpulse. The caps just sound slightly better. The signal is still going through DSP and is time delayed to enable alignment with the tapped horns that are about 9ms behind the rest otherwise. Sundays - noted Mike:)
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Sept 18, 2014 19:02:47 GMT
Here's a pic of my amping solution before I got the third Icon Audio set amp. The little T-amp was on tweeter duties. and round the back - 10 of everything! I've since made up some cable guides so all mains, all speaker and all interconnects are kept away from each other - not sure how much of a sound difference this made but I know it's better like that:)
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 19, 2014 4:12:33 GMT
Thanks for showing pictures of the amp set up Steve
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Sept 19, 2014 5:53:23 GMT
Yes, that's quite some cabling you've got there. And I was worried about mine being untidy!
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Sept 19, 2014 12:02:08 GMT
Yes, I have about 100m of speaker cable in use - so swank foo cable is not an option, budget wise or sheer thickness to accomdate:) Good OFC cable is what I use. Of course I am only sending each relatively narrow freq band signal down each of the 5 sets of cable so perhaps don't need such mega cable as each cable pair is doing less work - Never going to find out though as demoing cable that might be better is not really an option.
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Oct 3, 2014 19:09:54 GMT
Not strictly about my speakers but system.
I recently configured my Najda DSP/ADC/DAC/XO so that it could output a SPDIF signal without any X/O working (full signal as 2 channel) direct to another DAC. This allows me to use the great USB -> I2S route from Jriver to Najda for serving music. That route has proved to be the best quality of all the ways in I've tried. Najda was designed with this in mind and it trumps things like M2Tech coax in I tried and of course the Behringer UCA-202;) With regard to the M2Tech it may well be that it is great but just not as great into Najda in Coax SPDIF form as I2S!
So now I can take my trusty old DAC to drive a pair of phones (my trusty AKG701's). I do have to have a separate set up in Najda but it's just to flick to it with the remote. I have implemented the X/O's just in case I flick to it with the speaker amps on (don't want full fat signal going to each driver in the horn stack! Cleverly Najda has 5 SPDIF outputs. One for each of the 4 channels that are controlled by all the DSP feature it has and one that is completely independent to that so the full signal.
Nice comparing the the in the room sound to the in your head sound on a level input playing field.
I've come a long from one amp and 5 passive X/O's with caps / inductors and L-pads to balance the driver efficiencies...
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Oct 4, 2014 17:54:01 GMT
Thanks, Steve, for a very entertaining afternoon. Your speakers have come a long way and the sound is highly integrated (considering there are five drivers), incredibly focussed, tight, wide and tall. The height dispersion thing is interesting, no doubt because of the disposition of the drivers. The sound you are achieving from a file-based setup is remarkable.
Perhaps the most remarkable aspect was listening to vinyl via an ADC, DSP and DAC back to analogue again!
|
|
|
Post by John on Oct 4, 2014 18:05:11 GMT
I agree with Martin a great afternoon Was so surprised that Analogue to Digital and back to analogue managed to stay so clean
|
|
|
Post by John on Oct 4, 2014 21:08:06 GMT
Steve answered my question so I am not going to go down the active route as likely to have a negative effect with the mid and treble which is more critical then the bass where it paid real dividends in my set up Happy with my set up and reckon if it did not work out then it be hard to sell the DSP unit
|
|