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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 30, 2023 19:21:34 GMT
Just thought l chuck something out in the open. l have a Romanian Audiophile friend, he and his Hi Fi mates purchased a LB clock, loved thought it is amazing.
Then he mentioned that he and his friends have been experimenting with Network switches, he claims that they have had excellent results joining or cascading 3 x Netgear ProSafe GS108E network switches with low powered psu that run into a ifi Zen Stream. By adding each switch the sound improved.
Now l can't say l have every heard of such a method, and l don't stream, however l thought l should mention it,l can't see that my contact would mate it up.
l expecting our in house experts on TAS to enlighten us, and indeed have only tried such a method?
There was a YOUTUBE test of a load of switches with measurements and the Netgear ProSafe GS108E measured the lowest in regards to noise.
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Post by nicholas on Mar 30, 2023 19:48:11 GMT
A couple of years back I read about the Buffalo BS-GS2016 and BS-GS2008 managed switches being a step up for audio applications. Interestingly, Adrian at Afterdark prefers these switches to which he adds his OCXO clocks.
Melco branded audiophile switches use the Buffalo branded units as the base for their modded models.
Regrettably, the Buffalo series has been out of production and are getting rather hard to find.
I was fortunate to obtain 16 and 8 port switches which clearly impacted streaming SQ in a positive way. The difference between them and the Cisco units they replaced could be clearly heard.
I'm not surprised that your friend is hearing improvements with cascading the Netgear switches. As an added plus the Netgears are available and affordable.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 30, 2023 20:05:19 GMT
Well it's a whole new world for myself, and as you noticed, the Netgear ProSafe GS108E can be purchased at low prices.
It also begs the question that streaming has never sounded as good as local replay at my house, could it simply be down to my choice of TPLINK switches
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 30, 2023 20:23:48 GMT
Crazy enough to be believable Keep talking I'll catch up eventually  |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 30, 2023 21:08:25 GMT
Streaming is as good as files in my system.
But then, the EtherREGEN is a very superior network switch.
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Post by nicholas on Mar 30, 2023 21:31:05 GMT
EtherREGEN is a very superior switch indeed. I use one at the end of my network chain connecting its fiber output to a Sonore Signature Rendu SE streamer (as does Martin).
In my case fiber internet comes into my basement area then goes to a fiber modem onto an Asus router. The router connects to a Buffalo BS-GS2016 which distributes connections through the walls to each room in my home. The cable coming out of the wall in my media room connects to the Buffalo BS-GS2008 that services a Lyngdorf MP-40 preprocessor, a variety of video players and the EtherREGEN. Everything kicked up a notch when the Buffalo gear was deployed.
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Post by Slinger on Mar 30, 2023 21:44:49 GMT
Same principle with "nested" routers perhaps?   |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 30, 2023 22:05:41 GMT
So the EtherREGEN is the Daddy. But what would be the benefit of the use 3 altogether,triple filter like some type of Danish Beer, l am not doubting the improvement, but certainly a strange improvement.
And could you indeed cascade EtherREGEN units and obtain a similar outcome, of course that's a crazy suggestion...but l can see the EtherREGEN has a 10mhz clock input, which will take it to the premier league.
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Post by nicholas on Mar 30, 2023 22:48:45 GMT
...but l can see the EtherREGEN has a 10mhz clock input, which will take it to the premier league. Indeed it does... I have and Afterdark Ultra Trifecta Edition connected to the EtherREGEN, a modded Gustard U18 and a Gustard R26 DAC. I am fascinated that I unintentionally wound up with "cascaded" switches owing to my network topology which is explained above. Premier league is consistent with what I have been hearing out of my system since the last few iterations of improvements have been completed. |
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Post by assisi on Mar 31, 2023 5:43:21 GMT
I have tried various audio specified switches. I started with a Bonn N8 to which I added a second one. The first was definite improvement. The second less so. I then tried A Paul Pang Dual. One Bonn N8 with the PP dual was better than two Bonns. Each switch has its own signature outcome and so the differences combine into an overall benefit. More than one is better than just one. The problem becomes cables and cords.
I now have 8 switches of which a PP quad is four in one. As well as the PP I have a Waversa Core for Roon. It is also a switch. I have a Waversa Router which I only use as switch. The Waversas are serious product. Both have some RJ45 ports that are battery powered. Finally, there is a SOtM and a Melco. All bring their own signature to the mix.
I know that the EtherREGEN is well thought of and is switch of choice for many. In my case I considered that the PP dual was marginally better.
John
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Post by MartinT on Mar 31, 2023 6:38:54 GMT
The EtherREGEN is due to be replaced with the EtherREGEN Gen 2 in about 3 months time. I shall be buying one as even that far upstream I can hear the changes with power supply, grounding etc. Uptone have improved sinewave clock triggering, which will be great with my AfterDark clock.
Yes, some people do stack EtherREGENs which I may experiment with as I will have two!
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Post by brettj on Mar 31, 2023 7:57:26 GMT
I have ended up with two switches to install.
A Cisco 2960 on the modem, and a Cisco SG110D-08 beside the streamer.
The 2960 with Audiophool upgrade, and SG110D with Fidelity Audio clock.
A nice improvement with the SG110D installed.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 31, 2023 8:32:29 GMT
Same principle with "nested" routers perhaps? Marco's dream system  |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 31, 2023 8:39:05 GMT
Just be aware that a great many of the so called audio networks swicthed use the SAME module and its average at best no matter what psu & clock etc you place on its. the Paulpeng was ok but nothing special. Prices range from £500 to £2500 with these, thats nuts. I have many clients that have gone down the streaming rabbit whole in a big way an spent serious $£$£ on it yes it benefical from their point of view, but there are two really good switches that don't cost the earth & help nicely but nothing auidiophile here. Thankfully I don't personally need to do this, however I can measure the affects of ethernet traffic in real time with these devices, with a dedicated very indepth system and have measured and logged all of the top WBF fave's plus a few more. After all you can't label them drop a packet or two any more 
One chap we occassional deal with has four network switches (not inexpensive ones either) just from his NAS to the had unit, he swears by them, again look at the issue of why you use them seek the truth Grasshopper
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 31, 2023 8:43:00 GMT
Yes using extra switches in series does produce more preferable results for many, BUT its more cables, psu's etc plus space lol. Deal with the root problem and life will be easier on the eye & wallet imho |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 31, 2023 10:44:48 GMT
Excellent reply 👏 Tony...lt's interesting, l just thought l'd bring it up, as it's not a everyday thing
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Post by assisi on Mar 31, 2023 22:14:13 GMT
Deal with the root problem and life will be easier on the eye & wallet imho I am curious? What is the root problem and how does one deal with whatever it is?
John
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 31, 2023 23:28:19 GMT
IP is you root problem you are the merecy of your data supplier, placing all these patches on the problem does help, but its ugly, way to many boxes and its streaming, apart from massive music selction its biggest plus SQ isn't imho.
Maybe when the inforstructure has been upgraded to handle 800G or 1.6T as we are now working out the protocols for (256Ghz anyone!) and its a total non loss or non noise invaisive information supply pipeline then yes 100% I'm on board.
I have a 1Tb business pipe here, yet my 'streaming' is way better with 5G mobile router 1m RJ45 than from the business router, through two 'Audio' switches, two very clean psu's and a reclocking latch slaved from a 12.56fS clock.
Martin's idea and it works well give him a merit badge, simple but affective.
Next so one will suggest that Qoboz through HQplayer is the pinicle of digital replay, please I've had enough mirth for this evening thanks gents
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Post by assisi on Apr 3, 2023 0:49:02 GMT
IP is you root problem you are the merecy of your data supplier, placing all these patches on the problem does help, but its ugly, way to many boxes and its streaming, apart from massive music selction its biggest plus SQ isn't imho.
I use ROON. When I listen, the file may be coming from the NAS or streamed. To me the relative noise floor is the same regardless of which source. The patches as you say maybe ugly. Nevertheless, the SQ outcome because of low noise floor is to me worth the investment and the mess.
John |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 3, 2023 5:11:07 GMT
The reason I have advocated and use a 4G router for music streaming, and nothing else, is keeping the noise floor down. There's a lot of crap coming down a telephone cable used for ADSL/VDSL. 4G or 5G is effectively air-gapped and provides a better sound quality experience for streaming.
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