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Post by Tim on Mar 21, 2023 15:08:38 GMT
I've just been pondering the thorny question of forced updates - does Apple do the same thing with their O/S?
Specifically, if I bought a Mac mini to use exclusively as a headless music server, would I be forced into the constant update spiral, or can I easily choose to just leave it alone and not update automatically. So if I don't touch it, it'll be the same as when I left it weeks/months later - assuming it doesn't hang or anything?
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Post by MartinT on Mar 21, 2023 15:24:20 GMT
MacOS very persuasively asks you to perform OS updates for security purposes, but you can ignore it. It will eventually drop from support and then you're taking a risk by not updating it away from vulnerability.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 21, 2023 15:40:11 GMT
Hi Tim, I guess that depends on the software you are using and whether it needs a certain level of Mac OS but Spotify runs great on our 2011 Mini!
If you are thinking of getting a used Mini let me know as I have a "spare" to sell soon which I don't need, especially as we recently got an iMac.
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Post by Tim on Mar 21, 2023 16:28:00 GMT
I was thinking of trying it with JRiver MC Jules, as many in the JRiver community seem to rate it for stability and the Apple architecture for audio. It wouldn't do anything other than sit on the network with just the O/S and JRiver running as a Media Server . . . . . and as much turned off or disabled as possible, including updates. I would be interested in your 'spare' too Thanks MartinT that info helps. I know it is possible to edit the registry regarding Windows Update - but my impression of Microsoft has changed since they started giving away their O/S. I'd rather pay for an O/S than have a free auto updating data miner on my PC. I can see those eyes rolling all the way from Wales too!
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 21, 2023 16:45:21 GMT
Tim, my 2011 Mini hasn't been updated in years and runs just about everything without issue. It's incredibly stable and error free. The one problem was Adobe Lightroom which appears to need a newer OS which was one of the reasons for a change.
I'll drop you a PM about the spare ...
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Post by Tim on Mar 22, 2023 13:44:23 GMT
Thanks for the help guys, it seems it is an easy user selectable task to prevent updates if you wish. Pretty much as it was in Windows 7, although the Mac way is a lot more transparent and intuitive - just a few clicks away, instead of being behind a number of layers. So good for them
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Post by MartinT on Mar 22, 2023 13:47:33 GMT
Tim, my 2011 Mini hasn't been updated in years I hope it's not connected to the internet!
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Post by MartinT on Mar 22, 2023 13:54:44 GMT
I'm being serious. We have a relatively large fleet of Macs at work, as well as a few hundred Windows PCs. Unpatched Macs are just as vulnerable as unpatched Windows, the number of vulnerabilities on all platforms is eye-watering and we rigidly keep to patching them as soon as they become available.
MacOS Catalina (10.15) and older are obsolete, unsupported and becoming ever more vulnerable. Worse still, many users think Macs don't need anti-virus (they do) where Windows comes with it built-in.
Old unpatched machines should not be connected to the internet. If they are, they're a ticking time bomb. I speak from experience.
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Post by Tim on Mar 22, 2023 14:00:46 GMT
I was agreeing with you, so that's gone. I wouldn't do that for a machine I'm using - just the music server, but even then I do understand the inherent risk of being on a network with internet access, so I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it with a daily use machine - very risky indeed.
And Macs definitely do need A/V
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 22, 2023 14:18:01 GMT
My 2011 machine is fine and yes, I use AV.
Not going to do the Mac v PC thing ...
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Post by Tim on Mar 22, 2023 14:21:35 GMT
Not going to do the Mac v PC thing ... Both are the best machine for what the end user requires of them and prefers IMO.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 22, 2023 14:38:01 GMT
Not going to do the Mac v PC thing ... Wasn't doing that at all, was concerned for your safety.
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Post by petea on Mar 22, 2023 14:48:12 GMT
We run a range of Macs ranging from a 2008 MacPro to the latest M-chipped laptops and Studio models. I will be retiring the oldest ones shortly (the 2008 MacPro, a 2012 model and a 2016 'trashcan' one). They have just been replaced by 2 of the new Studio models as they are more powerful and support the latest versions of MacOS and because of software support (CAD and image and video editing software). I agree that an unsupported OS is potentially vulnerable, even MacOS, but additional security can be added and we use the various products from Intego on all machines (old and new).
As has been answered by others, you can turn off automatic updates although there are far fewer than with the various flavours of Windows and updates are mostly invisible to the user.
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Post by Tim on Mar 22, 2023 15:02:48 GMT
Just to be clear, in case anyone reading this thread gets the wrong impression of what my preference is regarding updates - it's only to do with one specific machine. I run a headless network attached Media Server which sits on it's own with no user interaction from myself, other than remotely controlling it to share music on that network. It does nothing else and has no other programs running, but always has A/V. At the moment it's running Linux, so it's not an issue, but it's normally a Windows machine.
It DOES get periodic updates, but this is when I choose to do it, or it's immediate if I know there is a specific threat that needs attention, but it's my decision, not Microsoft's. So don't get the impression it is never updated. What I desire from a Windows music server is to prevent it doing an update overnight automatically, followed by a reboot, as historically this has created me more work than doing it when it's convenient for me and it annoys me when I press play on my controller app and no music follows, due to an overnight automatic update. My daily driver desktop Windows machine gets updated or patched every time a new update is made available.
So I am in total agreement with Martin and I'm not advocating for anyone, be that a Mac or Windows user, to not keep their machines updated.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 22, 2023 15:22:31 GMT
Not going to do the Mac v PC thing ... Wasn't doing that at all, was concerned for your safety. Appreciated!
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Post by MartinT on Mar 22, 2023 15:23:52 GMT
I just want to say that you only have to read IT industry news to understand that every bit of equipment from network switches to firewalls to appliances and routers, let alone every client device be it Windows, MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, Android or Linux, are all under attack by ever more sophisticated gangs developing very advanced attack methods. If it's connected to the internet, it's potentially hackable. Every OS vendor is working hard to patch CVEs (vulnerabilities) as fast as they come in.
Ransomware is the least of it, the preferred method now is to steal personal data, wipe it from your machine then sell it on the dark web.
I am certainly not targeting MacOS. However, when I read that a non-updated 2011 machine is still in service I shudder. PLEASE protect yourself and update it.
Ok, I'll duck out of this thread now.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 22, 2023 15:44:45 GMT
The machine was updated as long as it was supported by Apple and we are now migrating to an iMac. Nothing I can really add to that.
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Bonky
Rank: Trio
Posts: 156
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Post by Bonky on Apr 18, 2023 17:09:15 GMT
I have just updated by late 2017 iMac to a M2 MacMini Pro. I stream using apple music to a Topping DAC and Rega amp in my study and via a WiimPro streamer in my main room (RME DAC (excellent!) and valve amp to Living Voice speakers. (I also have a Wiim Mini).
I love the sound. At first I had problems with the two Wiim units losing connection after a short break in the music. All this seems to have cleared now.
Apple music now encompasses Classical Music and I can download and stream at higher bit rates than 'red book'.
My music collection is stored on an external SSD (Samsung T5). All recommended.
I have a friend staying with me who is a music buff (he has a Naim system) and is near to tears over the (my) sound!
What more can I say?
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Post by Tim on Apr 18, 2023 17:50:31 GMT
Those WiiM Pro's are impressive bits of kit for their cost, had one for just over 2 weeks now and I'm really pleased with it for streaming Qobuz. Can't wait for the Qobuz Connect update.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 18, 2023 19:25:53 GMT
RME DAC (excellent!) and valve amp to Living Voice speakers. I'll bet that combo sounds good. It's good that your friend heard something special, perhaps he'll go back to his Naim system and make some changes.
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