|
|
Post by orange55 on Oct 9, 2022 19:34:12 GMT
I have been working on improving my digital music quality through a number of areas. Adding a Melco server over a standard Synology NAS. Adding audiophile switches, power supplies to those switches and router. High quality Ethernet cables. You get the gist.
My question is how close have people been able to get the quality of streaming Qobuz compared to locally stored files?
Mine is fairly close and if I were to walk in the room it is not initially obvious if it is local of Qobuz. However, when I compare them critically with the same tracks, ensuring the volumes are the same. I can hear differences. The main one is a slight smearing to the Qobuz stream in the treble area. It’s very subtle, but as with these things once you spot it it’s hard to let go.
I ask the question to know if I need to keep chasing quality gains from Qobuz or whether it is as good as it gets?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Oct 9, 2022 19:53:45 GMT
I never did files so I'll answer this in two ways:
1) streaming beats my old Ayre SACD player into another dimension. Not even close.
2) streaming sounds very close to a file saved in Google Drive and then played through the same system.
It's really down to the quality of the Qobuz master files, which they claim they do not tamper with (unlike, say, Tidal). I certainly believe it as Qobuz can sound truly magnificent.
|
|
|
|
Post by nicholas on Oct 9, 2022 19:59:53 GMT
Mine is fairly close and if I were to walk in the room it is not initially obvious if it is local of Qobuz. However, when I compare them critically with the same tracks, ensuring the volumes are the same. I can hear differences. The main one is a slight smearing to the Qobuz stream in the treble area. It’s very subtle, but as with these things once you spot it it’s hard to let go. My experience matches up with yours... playing local files seems to squeeze out that last little bit of high frequency detail but I would be hard pressed to tell the two apart walking into a room. |
|
|
|
Post by John on Oct 9, 2022 20:57:16 GMT
I still think Files are better, but no doubt my streaming solution has come a long way
I have not maximised my streaming solution to the same extent as others on TAS have.
|
|
|
|
Post by petea on Oct 9, 2022 21:22:57 GMT
Same experience here with files having the edge.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2022 7:54:32 GMT
I aim to prove that streaming and files should sound the same (provided the source data is the same).
|
|
|
|
Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 10, 2022 9:30:07 GMT
So far local files superior, streamed internet has still a long way to come, plus the physically amount of effort & cost needed to bring IP music up to a listenable standard (very close to that of a properly rendered file) is a way off. I not suggesting that its bad in any way, for myself and a great many clients its not by any stretch there yet) However it is a superb way of obtaining new music and exploring artists and composers you wouldn't have dreamed of listening to even only a few years ago.
For clarification we have a few quite well IT expert customers who have spent in excess of £10K+ just on the IP inforstructure to the streaming bridge and with custom switches/clocks/FOC converters ultra quiet power supplies. Yes it did make a very significant difference. But it's still not as good as the local files. customers.
However the big surprise to them was the effect of the front end, without question not all are created equally
|
|
|
|
Post by ajski2fly on Oct 10, 2022 10:40:56 GMT
By coincidence very recently I compared the recent Pink Floyd - Animals(2018 remix) release, I had the boxed set with the Blu-ray 192hz/24bit. I compared this streaming Qobuz through my simple digital set up, Sonore microRendu to DAC in AudioLab 8300CDQ, the Blu-ray disc was played on a higher end Pioneer Blu-Ray player to the same DAC. The blu-ray version had better presence, and to me sounded that it had a better defined soundstage.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2022 11:08:02 GMT
So far local files superior, streamed internet has still a long way to come, plus the physically amount of effort & cost needed to bring IP music up to a listenable standard (very close to that of a properly rendered file) is a way off. Tony: I agree, attention to the input chain from modem/router onwards is absolutely critical. I maintain that it depends on how much noise and crap you can get rid of before the stream reaches the DAC. Here's where 4G/5G has the advantage over telephone-based or cable internet. Less noise (although possibly more jitter). Adrian: Animals is much better sounding than before, but the compilation called 'Home', also in 24/192 on Qobuz, is extraordinary and the best sound quality I've ever heard from Floyd. |
|
|
|
Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 10, 2022 13:21:38 GMT
By coincidence very recently I compared the recent Pink Floyd - Animals(2018 remix) release, I had the boxed set with the Blu-ray 192hz/24bit. I compared this streaming Qobuz through my simple digital set up, Sonore microRendu to DAC in AudioLab 8300CDQ, the Blu-ray disc was played on a higher end Pioneer Blu-Ray player to the same DAC. The blu-ray version had better presence, and to me sounded that it had a better defined soundstage. Adrian
It will sound better if you copy those files to an SSD or Micro SD card as well  |
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Oct 10, 2022 13:54:41 GMT
Tony
How does a top CD compare to SSD ?
|
|
|
|
Post by ajski2fly on Oct 10, 2022 13:57:17 GMT
So far local files superior, streamed internet has still a long way to come, plus the physically amount of effort & cost needed to bring IP music up to a listenable standard (very close to that of a properly rendered file) is a way off. Tony: I agree, attention to the input chain from modem/router onwards is absolutely critical. I maintain that it depends on how much noise and crap you can get rid of before the stream reaches the DAC. Here's where 4G/5G has the advantage over telephone-based or cable internet. Less noise (although possibly more jitter). Adrian: Animals is much better sounding than before, but the compilation called 'Home', also in 24/192 on Qobuz, is extraordinary and the best sound quality I've ever heard from Floyd. Hi Martin, I will have a listen to that, thanks |
|
|
|
Post by ajski2fly on Oct 10, 2022 13:59:07 GMT
By coincidence very recently I compared the recent Pink Floyd - Animals(2018 remix) release, I had the boxed set with the Blu-ray 192hz/24bit. I compared this streaming Qobuz through my simple digital set up, Sonore microRendu to DAC in AudioLab 8300CDQ, the Blu-ray disc was played on a higher end Pioneer Blu-Ray player to the same DAC. The blu-ray version had better presence, and to me sounded that it had a better defined soundstage. Adrian
It will sound better if you copy those files to an SSD or Micro SD card as well I presume you mean using my MacBook to copy the Flac files from the blu-ray to SSD, and then using that to listen to it. If so I will give it a go out of pure interest. |
|
|
|
Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 10, 2022 14:33:31 GMT
That would be interesting, I was referring to a dedicated ripper/ streamer with an internal deicated drive seperate from the OS residing drive as they are superior to any macbook/surface pro laptop for audio replay.
However when you rip it Adrian, make sure they mac book is fully charged then pull out the power supply, it does make a positive difference.
I have some play lists the late John Bamford complied for me, all produced on his macbooks, however you can hear the switching noise from the macbook psu on the tracks he copied when you play them back.
We used to demomstrate this at shows, but do try ripping with a fully charged device with the power supply plug not connected
|
|
|
|
Post by orange55 on Oct 10, 2022 19:08:25 GMT
I never did files so I'll answer this in two ways: 1) streaming beats my old Ayre SACD player into another dimension. Not even close. 2) streaming sounds very close to a file saved in Google Drive and then played through the same system. It's really down to the quality of the Qobuz master files, which they claim they do not tamper with (unlike, say, Tidal). I certainly believe it as Qobuz can sound truly magnificent. I agree with you that my streaming is better than the expensive cd players and transport I use to own. |
|
|
|
Post by orange55 on Oct 10, 2022 19:09:02 GMT
That would be interesting, I was referring to a dedicated ripper/ streamer with an internal deicated drive seperate from the OS residing drive as they are superior to any macbook/surface pro laptop for audio replay. However when you rip it Adrian, make sure they mac book is fully charged then pull out the power supply, it does make a positive difference. I have some play lists the late John Bamford complied for me, all produced on his macbooks, however you can hear the switching noise from the macbook psu on the tracks he copied when you play them back. We used to demomstrate this at shows, but do try ripping with a fully charged device with the power supply plug not connected I love that about being able to hear the Mac psu. |
|
|
|
Post by ajski2fly on Oct 10, 2022 19:16:53 GMT
That would be interesting, I was referring to a dedicated ripper/ streamer with an internal deicated drive seperate from the OS residing drive as they are superior to any macbook/surface pro laptop for audio replay. However when you rip it Adrian, make sure they mac book is fully charged then pull out the power supply, it does make a positive difference. I have some play lists the late John Bamford complied for me, all produced on his macbooks, however you can hear the switching noise from the macbook psu on the tracks he copied when you play them back. We used to demomstrate this at shows, but do try ripping with a fully charged device with the power supply plug not connected Interesting that you believe you can hear psu switching, it’s a possibility. I will try with and without and see what I find. Cheers |
|
|
|
Post by HD Music & Test on Oct 10, 2022 23:33:47 GMT
There's no belief, its real, palpable and repeatable we demonstrate at shows. You can clearly hear the ticking and clicking on each of tracks, (it ts low level on most systems but bloody obvious on ours!)and is clearly visible on the analysers FFT plots
There is a reason for it that was apprant at the time of copying by John.
However we can demonstrate that fba is a cut above IP music and not just by a small amount.
We also use 4G router (5G in the next two weeks when I have improved the wall mounted anntena and control box psu) it's a big step up from our big GB fibre pipe.
However as I have said before the front end in the case speakes volumes.
Personally my digital front end count is over twenty from Pi's Limetrees, Aurenders, Limetree, Antipodes, Rickna including Pink Fuan & Taiko reference streamers as good as they are the FBA replay side is obviously, repeatablely ah Improvement over IP delivered music
|
|
|
|
Post by orange55 on Oct 11, 2022 7:55:13 GMT
There's no belief, its real, palpable and repeatable we demonstrate at shows. You can clearly hear the ticking and clicking on each of tracks, (it ts low level on most systems but bloody obvious on ours!)and is clearly visible on the analysers FFT plots There is a reason for it that was apprant at the time of copying by John. However we can demonstrate that fba is a cut above IP music and not just by a small amount. We also use 4G router (5G in the next two weeks when I have improved the wall mounted anntena and control box psu) it's a big step up from our big GB fibre pipe. However as I have said before the front end in the case speakes volumes. Personally my digital front end count is over twenty from Pi's Limetrees, Aurenders, Limetree, Antipodes, Rickna including Pink Fuan & Taiko reference streamers as good as they are the FBA replay side is obviously, repeatablely ah Improvement over IP delivered music Really interesting. Although I am feeling you may be an expensive person to know. ;-) |
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Oct 11, 2022 8:04:59 GMT
There's no belief, its real, palpable and repeatable we demonstrate at shows. You can clearly hear the ticking and clicking on each of tracks, (it ts low level on most systems but bloody obvious on ours!)and is clearly visible on the analysers FFT plots There is a reason for it that was apprant at the time of copying by John. However we can demonstrate that fba is a cut above IP music and not just by a small amount. We also use 4G router (5G in the next two weeks when I have improved the wall mounted anntena and control box psu) it's a big step up from our big GB fibre pipe. However as I have said before the front end in the case speakes volumes. Personally my digital front end count is over twenty from Pi's Limetrees, Aurenders, Limetree, Antipodes, Rickna including Pink Fuan & Taiko reference streamers as good as they are the FBA replay side is obviously, repeatablely ah Improvement over IP delivered music Really interesting. Although I am feeling you may be an expensive person to know. ;-) He certainly can be. Sometimes you can't resist though |
|
