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Post by orange55 on Oct 13, 2022 17:57:47 GMT
Here's a better photo showing an adapter with a cage. This way, a matching SFP can be used or an AOC cable.  So should dI purchase 2 of the above and 2 www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/II-VI-Finisar/FCBG110SD1C03?qs=pBN%2FbMTRZdcL3HgZpizBqQ%3D%3D&countryCode=GB¤cyCode=GBP and run the recommended optical cable from the ADSL router to my microRendu which would be a distance of about 10m? Really what I am asking is if I keep the ethernet cable as short as possible at each end will I get an improvement in SQ with the dedicated optical to the microRendu? Another option might be to move the ADSL box nearer to the HiFi, but that means a telephone cable extension, not a big deal, but I also like to try and keep Wifi gear as far away from the HiFi as possible, but I suppose it might not make much difference either? I have run these in the past and found adding an iFi Power X power supply greatly improved their performance. |
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Post by orange55 on Oct 14, 2022 15:56:33 GMT
So my initial experience with the AOC cable was a bit of a disappointment but that was before I power cycled my player, U18, ER and DAC. OMG, this cable may indeed be "The One". Stunning improvement over the excellent HP transceiver / Ipolex single mode fiber cable. Great find, Mr. Orange... I am glad that you liked it and it brought about an improvement. |
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Post by orange55 on Oct 14, 2022 16:01:05 GMT
Now, I had to curtail my evening somewhat so I'm also reluctant to report fully on its performance without putting more hours on it and a lot more music through it. I'm just going to say this, for the moment. From cold, I immediately heard some more ultra-fine detail and even sharper, whipcrack-like dynamics most apparent on drums. However, the thing which took me most by surprise is the bass. I thought the HPs were head and shoulders above the other SFPs in this area but the Finisar takes structural bass to a further high (or is that low). I like you was surprised by the Bass improvement the cable brought about. On the Afterdark listed they described it as slight warm, but I feel your description is closer to what I am hearing than an overall warmer sound. How's it been over the last few days? |
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Post by nicholas on Oct 14, 2022 16:07:36 GMT
nicholas I am glad that you liked it and it brought about an improvement. There are two takeaways here: 1) the AOC cable is the best yet, and 2) if you have external clocks on your digital gear be sure to power cycle ALL of devices connected to them when making changes to your system. Initially, when I installed the AOC cable I simply power cycled my ER and Rendu SE player hearing a bit of degradation in SQ. It wasn't until a power cycle was applied to the U18 DDC and X26 Pro DAC as well that the significant improvement was clearly heard. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 15, 2022 17:57:29 GMT
Ho hum, another one of those lessons was learned today and, thanks to John and julesd68 , they helped me to validate it. I had been having misgivings about my system's sound the last two evenings. It was starting to sound off and I couldn't put my finger on it. I did the usual checks that everything was in place, grounding boxes connected etc. I even thought of reverting to my HP SFPs and ipolex fibre cable but, on the basis that the Finisar sounded so good from new, I didn't figure it was the culprit. I still wasn't entirely happy this morning when firing things up and let it slide. I spoke to John and Jules on their visit and asked them to help me with an experiment. We played a track and I then reverted to the HP/ipolex and played it again. Lo and behold, the system's familiar performance had returned! Both agreed with that and Jules later confirmed it as like listening to 'two different systems'. I can only surmise that the AOC is my first example of a product that has burned-in in the wrong direction, i.e. become significantly worse than when it was new. It beat the HP/ipolex then, but is considerably inferior now, sounding less fluid and with an edgy feeling to the sound, despite having better focus. It could be that I have a bad cable? Someone else with the same cable needs to confirm whether performance with theirs improved or not. However, I'm withdrawing support for the Finisar for now and am back on the HP/ipolex, which is sounding wonderfully musical. Misgivings resolved. |
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Post by nicholas on Oct 15, 2022 18:47:41 GMT
Just checked and my AOC remains at peak form... stunning, actually.
Curiously, I'll be getting a second identical AOC on Monday for my office system so we'll have two here to test against.
The good news is that we have the excellent HP/Ipolex combo to fall back on if the Finisar AOC proves itself to be duff.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 15, 2022 19:15:18 GMT
Hi Nick
I have now tried the full system reset to no avail. All I can say is that my AOC is not what it was when new. For now, the HP/ipolex is doing excellent service, brought out of retirement as it were.
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Post by orange55 on Oct 16, 2022 12:00:18 GMT
That is very interesting MartinT. I have had my AOC for a month now and it is still sounding great. As if by fate on Friday evening when you were having issues with the cable. We spent the evening listening to music as it was sounding so good, instead of watching a movie as planned. One additional thing I have noticed is that it has highlighted a bigger difference in my system between locally stored music and streamed. But I am looking to get tips from other threads here to try and address that. Annoyingly though 4G is very poor and 5G stops a few hundred meter from our house, although it’s great in other parts of the village. |
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Post by John on Oct 16, 2022 13:13:58 GMT
I need to be honest I was finding the system balance hard work, I just put this down to following different paths. The mids were a bit congested, highs were harsh, and instruments lacked texture. Jules seemed to like the system better.
We had a had a break and Martin asked us to if could help him evaluate some changes.
With the revised system changes I could hear more depth and texture, I no longer felt annoyed by what I was hearing and could relax more into the music as my ears were no longer being fried. I had to leave shortly afterwards and was not really able to hear the difference in treble, but what I did hear allowed the mids to have better coherence.
The difference was as radical as changing speakers
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Post by MartinT on Oct 17, 2022 16:51:34 GMT
Well, I received the 5m Finisar AOC cable today and it's gone straight into the cupboard.
I like a bit of experimentation but I'm not into self flagellation so it'll wait until the day I take two chill pills and give it another go. I love what my system is doing too much to try that again in a hurry!
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Post by nicholas on Oct 17, 2022 20:25:04 GMT
My second 3m Finisar AOC cable arrived today and replaced the HP/Ipolex cable in my office system with same result in improvement as I experienced with my first in my main system.
A question was raised on another forum today regarding whether transmitter ground is tied to the receiver ground on the AOC cable. If this were so the AOC cable would not provide full isolation.
Out came my multimeter which quickly revealed that there is no continuity between the transmitter and receiver shells so it would appear that isolation is full and intact.
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Post by orange55 on Nov 2, 2022 16:02:33 GMT
I want to thank MartinT for loaning me two pairs of his SFP’s to allow me to complete this review. It is a four way review of SFP’s which include: 10Gtek ASF85-24-X2-D, BlueOptics BO35J13610D, Keystron JD-094B-KS and Finisar FCBG110SD1C03 AOC cable. Both BlueOptics and Keystron were using an Ipolex fibre cable, whereas the Finisar has the cable attached to the SFP’s, hence the AOC (Active Optical Cable). I always find context is an important aspect of testing audio changes in higher end equipment, allowing the findings to be applied to an individual system. The SFP’s and fibre cables were tested between two SOtM sNH-10G switches with internal clocks using a Chord Sarum Super Array Ethernet as the baseline between the switches. The full signal path is: Router > Chord Signature Super Array Ethernet > Melco Server > Chord Sarum Super Array Ethernet > SOtM sNH-10G switch 1 > “SFP fibre link” > SOtM sNH-10G switch 2 > Chord Sarum Super Array Ethernet > Lyngdorf MP-50 Streamer and from switch 2, Chord Sarum Super Array Ethernet > Apple TV. There are two sources as I tested the impact on video streaming alongside audio streaming from Qobuz and the Melco server. (The streamer in the Lyngdorf is the same as used in all Lyngdorf two channel and multi channel products, plus all of the Steinway systems). Warming up was key advice from MartinT , so each was run for about 6 hours before any critical listening and were in place for a number of days during the testing period. One thing I was slightly surprised with, was the impact each of the SFP’s had on the entire sound of the system. Changing the SFP had the kind of impact you would expect from a major component change, it was not subtle by any means, very night and day. In turn this means that the SFP fibre link can also be used to tune one's system if a desired sound is preferred, although I cover this again in the summary having reflected on the findings. 10Gtek ASF85-24-X2-DI started with the 10Gtek, which is readily available on Amazon for about £15. From the Chord Ethernet this takes the sound backwards, the sound stage shrinks and transparency is removed. It sounds like there is a veil getting in the way of the music. Detailing is pretty good, but it lacks emotion and engagement in the music. Overall the 10Gtek sounds balanced with a decent weight to the music, without any frequency being exaggerated. BlueOptics BO35J13610DNext the BlueOptics which is touted online as being “compatible” with the AfterDark highly recommended Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL, which sets expectations higher than the 10Gtek. The BlueOptics does have better sound staging and transparency than the 10Gtek, you feel closer to the music and you can hear into the mix better, with good sound staging. However, it is harsh sounding and hard to listen to. So much so I had to force myself to keep it in place, but could only listen for short periods of time. If you can hear through the harshness the overall detail and sound stage was better than the 10Gtek. Interestingly the character of the sound is closer to the Finisar AOC in this review than any of the other SFP’s. Keystron JD-094B-KSI kept going back to the Keystron as it has many great attributes, good sound staging, detailed, clean sounding. It did share some of the 10Gtek sound character, with there being a slight veil over the music and the mid range was a little recessed. Additionally there was a thinness to the sound which resulted in instruments losing their realism when compared to all others and the Ethernet. One word that kept coming back to the sound of the Keystron was Polite. I wanted to like this for all its technical abilities, but it did not draw me into the music and it did not convey the emotion of the music. Finisar FCBG110SD1C03 AOCThe first thing that stands out on the Finisar is the veil over the sound of the Keystron and 10Gtek has been replaced by a sense of transparency. You can really hear into the music and soundstage. There is a slightly weighter sound that adds to the realism of all instruments, however not overly so compared with the baseline Chord Ethernet. This weight is particularly noticeable with string instruments, whereby the timbre and tone really shows through and the sense of being right in the room with you. Compared with the baseline Ethernet, the Finisar builds on that balance with a greater sense of silence in the background of the music allowing the overall detail and the leading edge of all notes to come through. All of the Keystron technicalities are there with soundstaging and detailing, but greater transparency. Switching between all the SFP’s what really struck me is how the Finisar conveys the emotion in the music like no other. MusicI used a lot of music over the time that I was testing the SFP’s, however there were two tracks that stood out as highlighting the differences. Both tracks by Fink and recorded live, ‘Perfect Darkness’ and ‘Trouble's What You're In’, from the ‘Wheels Turn Beneath My Feet album’. Here are the Qobuz links: open.qobuz.com/track/6286893 & open.qobuz.com/track/6286899 As the SFP’s increased in quality, the electricity of the atmosphere from both tracks really comes to life. The visualisation of the venue and the fact the guitars are turned up and just teetering away from feeding back is really clear to hear, which is lost on the poorer SFP’s. During my review time I caught a West End show and some live music which was a great barometer of how the instrument should sound against only listening in my room, and this reinforced my views on the Finisar AOC cable as really bringing the realism and emotion of the music to life. Apple TVI mentioned video streaming at the start and used Netflix to test each of the SFP’s, with the ‘Forest’ episode of ‘Our Planet’. Skipping the intro and using the first 5 mins, which is material I am very familiar with and have used it to test changes as I have grown my streaming set-up. All of the audio changes listed above stand for the audio tracks of the video, however the Finisar AOC gives a sharper image and better image depth than all the others and the colours have more vibrancy. The additional sharpness also shows itself with the overall lighting, with each scene seemingly to be slightly brighter as the Dolby Vision HDR works to great effect. Sound wise the Finisar AOC also takes you right into the forest with all of the sounds in the Dolby Atmos soundtrack really opening up the atmosphere. Interestingly the picture with the baseline Chord Ethernet cable, rather using an SFP, is sharper with better colours than all the SFP’s except the Finisar AOC which is better. Final ThoughtsIn my system the Finisar AOC is clearly the better sounding SFP. However, when I compare it to the baseline Chord Ethernet cable it builds on that sound and looking at the context of my set-up that would make sense as the SPF sits between two of the Chord cables. This leads me to ponder if the other SFP’s are inflicting their own sound on the system, (which the results show they are), whereas the Finisar has a transparency that lets the other elements in the system show through, hence building on the sound of the Chord cables before and after the switches. In turn the other SFP’s could well be masking poorer sounding devices or connections downstream and when adding the transparency of the Finisar it shows through. Whatever the effect, my system has never been as enjoyable as it is today with the Finisar AOC in place. |
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Post by nicholas on Nov 2, 2022 17:44:43 GMT
Final ThoughtsIn my system the Finisar AOC is clearly the better sounding SFP. However, when I compare it to the baseline Chord Ethernet cable it builds on that sound and looking at the context of my set-up that would make sense as the SPF sits between two of the Chord cables. This leads me to ponder if the other SFP’s are inflicting their own sound on the system, (which the results show they are), whereas the Finisar has a transparency that lets the other elements in the system show through, hence building on the sound of the Chord cables before and after the switches. In turn the other SFP’s could well be masking poorer sounding devices or connections downstream and when adding the transparency of the Finisar it shows through. Whatever the effect, my system has never been as enjoyable as it is today with the Finisar AOC in place. Your findings are consistent with mine and the two Finisar AOC cables in main and office systems remain top performers producing excellent results. |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 2, 2022 19:19:54 GMT
Thank you for the very comprehensive review. Your findings on the BlueOptics and JD094B-KS exactly match mine, which is a useful correlation in what we hear. The BlueOptics didn't last long at all in my system and I bought the Keystrons out of curiosity, wondering if all HP JD094B compatibles sound the same. They do not.
My JD094B-C sound significantly better than the -KS (the KS stands for Keystron but I have been unable to establish who makes the C variant). It's pure chance that my two came from obsolete machinery at work (I work in IT) and that I just happened upon the best damned SFPs I've yet had in my possession.
The Finisar AOC are an anomaly for me. They started out sounding the best of all, and their sound matched your description in all but bass weight where the JD094B-C are king. However, the burn-in went backwards and by the time John and Jules heard them in my system they had become harsh and relentless. I did try a full component reset, including the clocks, in case something had been thoroughly upset in the changeover but to no avail. I have no explanation for this, and going back to the JD094B-C was a blessed relief.
I do have a shrink-wrapped 5m Finisar AOC just looking at me, asking to be tested. I'm not prepared to disrupt my system just yet as I love the sound that it's making, but I will await a time to give it a try, perhaps with a friend on hand to lend a second pair of ears on the experience.
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Post by John on Nov 18, 2022 5:47:47 GMT
I would just like to add my own experience of this.
My first experience of this was at Martins I was a bit in shock by the night and day difference. My friend Vic then had success and with the cost of the boxes being so cheap and the space they would occupy being small I decided to go try out for myself.
I bought a Pair of 2 Pack Single Mode Dual SC Fiber Gigabit Fast Ethernet Media Converter, Bidi Mini 1x 10/100/1000Base-T RJ45 to 1000Base-SC Slot Ethernet Media Converter, up to 30km 1310-nm, AC 100V~240V and suitable single ended cables to connect between the two devices. The SFP is built in so took a gamble with this.
Initial Trail.
I tried with the power supplies provided. That was a mistake a backwards step as the power supplies adding a lot of noise.
Second trail
I managed to get working from a 5v powerbank by powering both units from it. I needed to use Tara Cascade burn in to help with a slight harshness with the treble that was a bit etched for my tastes.
A few days ago, I got an LPS, and this was a further improvement in terms of timbre, naturalness, flow and impact. It's not huge but certainly I can notice it.
If you are using Ethernet to stream, I would say doing this is essential as it just takes a level of noise away from the system and allows the music to flow. Set up is straight forward. I would say this is the best value tweak I have had used in my system. I would also say a clean power supply will help you get the best from this type of product.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 18, 2022 9:14:33 GMT
One thing to point out, John is to not use the same power supply for both ends of the optical link. What you gain in isolation will be lost in shorting the ground planes via the PSU. Try powering both ends with different PSUs and listen for a difference? |
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Post by Clive on Nov 18, 2022 10:53:07 GMT
One thing to point out, John is to not use the same power supply for both ends of the optical link. What you gain in isolation will be lost in shorting the ground planes via the PSU. Try powering both ends with different PSUs and listen for a difference? This is something that concerned me for the reason you state Martin. I have two optical units powered from a single PS, I'll use an extra PS to fully separate the two boxes and report back. |
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Post by John on Nov 18, 2022 11:55:27 GMT
One thing to point out, John is to not use the same power supply for both ends of the optical link. What you gain in isolation will be lost in shorting the ground planes via the PSU. Try powering both ends with different PSUs and listen for a difference? Thanks Martin I have two lines on my LPS |
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Post by Clive on Nov 18, 2022 14:32:29 GMT
I will check my PS with a meter to find out whether the 0V (outer part of the DC plug) is connected to mains earth. If so, the ground planes are bridged even with two power supplies such power supplies.
Edit 1: Much I suppose depends on the internal connection inside the fibre boxes…it’s likely 2 power supplies will be better…I’m about to try this.
Edit 2: I've had a play using another linear PS. I expect results will differ from system to system...
With my streamer powered from one Supercharger (supercap PS) and a second Supercharger powering both optical units the sound is certainly better than when I used the very basic looking 2 x SMPS which shipped with the optical units.
With my streamer powered from a Supercharger; the "clean side" optical unit powered from a second Supercharger and the "dirty side" optical unit powered from a Sbooster LPS, yes the results were different.
- more focus
- less bass bloom (eg hearing more detail on drum skins), in some respects a little less apparent bass
- overall presence and clarity improved
My next test (tomorrow) will be to compare with a Zyxel gigabit switch with optical. Rather than optical vs switch, I'm mostly intrigued by trying the switch before the optical devices. Hopefully this will be overkill and of no benefit as I have enough kit and wires already!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 18, 2022 15:42:14 GMT
All things being equal, you want the optical bridge to be as near to your streamer/DAC as possible.
Great experiments, let us know about the next test!
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