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Post by speedysteve on Aug 1, 2022 21:41:32 GMT
I sooner they used coal short term to allow the infrastructure to be done But... learn from Australia and their coal barons. Ah, cue the Honest Government ad chicks 🙂
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Post by MartinT on Aug 2, 2022 4:58:17 GMT
Yes, they're good, and sobering.
Australian politicians are clearly from the same cesspool as ours.
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Post by petea on Aug 2, 2022 8:07:37 GMT
Picking up on your reference to 3-phase supplies to domestic premises, Adrian. This seems to be pretty much standard practice in Germany and has been for many years. Again, our apartment (the buildings date from between 1905 and 1935 and were built in 2-phases by the same person) is unusual in that it only has a single-phase supply, whereas my studio (in the same complex and built in the first phase) has a 3-phase supply. I suspect this is because that, unusually, the buildings remained in private ownership (the builder's wife refused to 'sell' them to the state) throughout the time of the DDR and then passed to her grandson (and now his son). This meant there was no grand refurbishment, just piecemeal ones as apartments became vacant: the wiring is reasonably new, but simply a replacement of the previous aluminium stuff whereas my studio was created from a derelict space and I paid for the new supply, etc.
Anyway, what I found interesting when I first moved to Germany 20-odd years ago was that you could buy things like 3-phase washing machines for domestic use and the oven of our cooker has dual wiring for either single or 3-phase use. As a result of the availability of 3-phase supplies many white-goods and electrical heating systems can be more 'efficient' and the infrastructure is significantly more ready for a transition away from gas and oil at point-of-use than the UK. Much is the same elsewhere in mainland Europe as I understand it. Maybe this was the result of the rebuilding required after WW2, but whatever the reason, it seems we have quite some 'catching-up' to do.
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Post by ajski2fly on Aug 2, 2022 10:45:47 GMT
I am not surprised the Germans are known for there efficiency and a sticklers for good design generally, Our Neff induction hob purchased in the UK I was surprised to see it can be wired for 2 or 3 phase.
On the subject of 3 phase electricity in a house, when we were refurbishing our bungalow last year I had a discussion with our electrician, he was building a new house and was being forced to have 3 phase supply by Western Power, that or no electricity. He commented that he really did not want it due to safety issues, he was saying that it is all too easy to cross connect phases and jump to the full 430-440 volts and then boom, he also said in the UK it adds complexity and costs more as you end up having to have a consumer unit for each split off single phase and separate rings from each. We used to have a large guest house into which we had to install 3 phase to cope with all the electric showers, and larger power drains overall, we had 3 consumer units, two to the main house and one to the granny annex, it was complex and costly.
What we found out through the Western Power debacle, when we improved our home, was that for the majority of homes in the UK if they accurately apply the full electrical diversity calculations most will be between 50amp and 80amp max, and the majority of houses are on a 100amp breaker fuse so below the 80% requirement. It is advisable to accurately get the amp rating of each device being used in the calculation and to not use the consumer units individual ring amp ratings, if you use these then it will be inaccurate and high. I believe most good EV chargers can check on the existing house load(amps) and be set to only charge a car only if there is sufficient amp headroom available.
Applying diversity to the maximum load (Amps), there are much more detailed an accurate Electrical regulations which will work even better.
Lighting: 66% Heating: 100% of total up to 10A and 50% of all above Cooking: 10A + 30% of cooker full load above 10A and + 5A if there is a cooker socket Water Heaters: (Instant – eg. showers) 100% of largest + 100% second largest + 25% of remaining Water Heaters: (Immersion cylinder) 100% Floor: 100% Storage Heaters: 100% Sockets: 100% of largest appliance + 40% at every other point
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Post by Mr Whippy on Aug 3, 2022 21:17:53 GMT
Might have hoped for something a bit more... out the box:
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Post by Mr Whippy on Aug 14, 2022 8:55:29 GMT
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Post by speedysteve on Aug 14, 2022 16:02:56 GMT
Might have hoped for something a bit more... out the box: It's a right arrogant C looker of car - want one!😂
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Post by speedysteve on Aug 14, 2022 16:06:32 GMT
Finally a car the Jetsons would be proud of 🙂 Def want one😂 In wheel motors, efficient 👍, unsprung weight..? Who cares. Lightweight 2000lbs😮 Just under twice the weight of a Caterhsm SLR etc. Wonder when they cotton on that a lardass driver (CEO) isn't helping range 🙂
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Post by ajski2fly on Aug 15, 2022 13:06:49 GMT
Finally a car the Jetsons would be proud of 🙂 Def want one😂 In wheel motors, efficient 👍, unsprung weight..? Who cares. Lightweight 2000lbs😮 Just under twice the weight of a Caterhsm SLR etc. Wonder when they cotton on that a lardass driver (CEO) isn't helping range 🙂 It's what Morgan should have done when they tried an electric 3-wheeler instead of lively in the styling past, theirs died a death by the way.
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Post by speedysteve on Aug 15, 2022 15:33:10 GMT
I imagine it will would be great at single wheel drifts and donuts 🙂 Oh wait, that's not environmentally friendly, or a sensible use of energy🙂
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Post by ajski2fly on Aug 17, 2022 15:38:25 GMT
OK, a few friends, relatives, and some on other forums and EV naysayers have been questioning my rationale for purchasing our EV, some have said it just does not financially stack up, or it does not work, is not useable or that I am just plan stupid. In answer to some of the above I wrote the following and thought it might be useful to some of you considering an EV of any sorts, at least to try and put aside some fears you you may have. What is here is fact and from real world usage of our Tesla Model 3 in cold, mild and hot conditions, local and long journeys. I drive sensibly and generally adhere to the speed limits, its far too busy to do anything else IMO, and driving at 80-90 mph down a motorway does not make much time difference at the end of the day, apart form making you tired and edgy. The table below is up to date as of yesterday, running costs are very low. I would say tyres £400/year (doing 15K/year), new brake pads - around £200 every 4th year (regenerative braking means much less wear), Tesla Model 3 interior air filter (self fit every 2 years) £15, check/change brake fluid every 2 years, local garage cost £60. (If looking at other EVs ask for the servicing plan and costs, KIA did not have one when I asked, MG do the first one a nut/bolt check is £40, TBH there is very little to do on an EV) Tesla servicing cost assuming 15k/year, £400 Tyres, brake pads and fitting £75, Air Filter £7.50, Brake fluid £30 Yearly servicing Total of £512.50 Plus what you spend on electricity. With Solar panels you will get around 3 per mile, for us that's around 60% free from solar and 40% on long trips from superchargers, currently £0.49/kw, so an average of £1.20 for an equivalent 40mpg ICE car, so 15k mile a year would cost would be 6k miles(40% of 15K mile) from superchargers which would be 1500kw (4 miles from each kwh) at £0.49/kwh which is £735. Yearly Insurance is £396 for an over 60 year with clean licence(Direct Line) Total Tesla Model yearly running cost is £1643.50 If you charged the car off the grid on Octopus Go/Inteligent at £0.08/kwh off peak for 60% 15K miles a year then this would be around 2250kwh(9000 miles) costing £180 additional cost on the above. Doing the same 15K miles in an equivalent ICE car, say a BMW or similar, petrol £3075 (at 40mpg at £8.20/gallon) , Tyres £400, Average Yearly Service £600, Insurance £600, total annual cost £4675 So the Telsa is about 1/3 the annual running cost, which strangely enough is what the motoring press says about EV ownership generally, over 5 years saving around £15000. Obviously there are other EV cars, the key is to look at efficient ones and those that have a range which fits your actual needs. If long journeys over 200 mile are a rarity and most daily usage is around 60-50 miles then any EV with 250 miles real world range would meet most peoples needs, just charge it at home over night or off Solar in the day, if you have it. If you do a longer journey then you just plan where and when you will charge up and have a coffee break. If you do more longer trips, most people don't, and want to charge quicker look at the EVs that are rated 370mph charging or above (this only matters when using a supercharger). Aim for a car that's at least 300Wh/mile efficient, you can get miles/kwh by dividing this figure into 1000, so a 250wh/mile efficient car does around 4 miles per Kwh driven sensibly. Look at ev-database.uk and you can see what is available and all the different specs/prices. A Tesla Model 3 is a more expensive but is very energy efficient and has a reasonable charging rate, and is totally usable. There are some very good alternatives, for example the newer MGs are pretty good and not expensive, MG ZS EV Long Range and the soon to be released MG MG4 EV Long Range, as is the Kia Niro and there are others. I would also seriously consider the Sono Sion £21.5K, available to order, if you are all about maximising VFM and minimising motoring costs and do not particularly care about looks as long as it goes and is efficient. If charging from a super charger you should not take the battery to more than 80% full, which will maximises its life, it does not matter if using a 7kw or less charger, and it is best to only deplete it to 10-20%. A car with a 60kwh battery with 4 miles/kwh efficiency will have a max range of 240 miles, so if you discharge the battery down to 20% and put 60% back in (36kwh) at a 120kwh supercharger this will take 36/120 * 60 or about 18 minutes. I hope that makes sense and gives you some insight. It does work honest, and EVs are great to drive, I would recommend you go for a test drive in a suitable EV the sparks you interest.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 17, 2022 15:48:39 GMT
I have noticed more EVs on the roads around here when out on the bike
Easy to tell as there is only tyre noise
EVs are the coming thing and will only get better - unless hydrogen or other becomes a better bet. Unlikely from where I sit now
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Post by topalwaysdown on Aug 22, 2022 15:51:45 GMT
I have a couple of ev owning friends who keep suggesting that I make the change, but, we have two low mileage ice vehicles that are 13 and 7 years old, both fully functioning and long since paid for, neither have done enough to be carbon neutral so why change, and what to do with them, trading in only keeps them on the road in someone else’s hands and I then need to spend a lot of cash to replace the family hatchback and no one I see makes an electric two seat convertible sports car for me, I’ll just need to stick with what I have now methinks.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 22, 2022 15:56:07 GMT
The original Tesla Roadster would have suited you, but the used prices are eye-watering!
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Post by topalwaysdown on Aug 22, 2022 16:56:17 GMT
Not only would my wallet have a seizure but I think my S2k is prettier, and it’s appreciating, nearly worth what I paid for it in 2009! No vtec buzz in a leccie either.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 22, 2022 19:11:26 GMT
An S2k? You have my respect.
What a stirring wail that makes.
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Post by topalwaysdown on Aug 22, 2022 21:41:51 GMT
Many thanks, Life begins at 6000rpm.
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Post by ajski2fly on Aug 23, 2022 13:50:11 GMT
I have a couple of ev owning friends who keep suggesting that I make the change, but, we have two low mileage ice vehicles that are 13 and 7 years old, both fully functioning and long since paid for, neither have done enough to be carbon neutral so why change, and what to do with them, trading in only keeps them on the road in someone else’s hands and I then need to spend a lot of cash to replace the family hatchback and no one I see makes an electric two seat convertible sports car for me, I’ll just need to stick with what I have now methinks. Thing is that we all need to "Stop burning stuff", to give our planet some chance of a future where we and wildlife can survive well into the future. If you have children and grand-children it might be worth investigating and thinking about the environment that they are likely to face due to global warming in terms, a scorched planet, flooding due to rising sea levels and extreme weather systems. If CO2, methane and other global warming gases, increases in temperatures, continue as it is then over 50% of the Earths land mass will become pretty intolerable for humans and animals within 50 years and the demise will accelerate as major eco-system that hold global warming in check are lost. Sorry but this is proven fact not science-fiction! But we have time to stop this happening but we need to act now and make major changes very quickly. As said earlier in this thread it will take lots of changes, not just EVs, but every little bit helps, for example the move to LED light over the last 20 years has lowered electric power usage on the grid at peak times by 10%. The more power efficient and smart we are how we generate power and use it the more effect we will have in reducing global warming. EVs are significantly more efficient than ICE vehicles, apart form the fact that the fact the electricity is cheaper per mile that Petrol/Diesel/mile, and if you charge and EV at home from Solar panels it costs nothing(apart from initial installation costs) and is completely clean.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 23, 2022 16:38:54 GMT
You're still forgetting (or ignoring) the manufacture of batteries and production of electricity, both of which are problematic and can be extremely noxious.
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Post by Clive on Aug 23, 2022 18:38:11 GMT
Not all EVs will be recharging overnight on wind power or solar in the daytime. How much fossil fuel will we burn to charge those batteries? The situation will improve but not quickly.
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