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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2022 18:56:26 GMT
Coherent Modified Gustard U18My comments refer to the exact same system with Coherent Systems modified U18 compared with the original stock U18. General observations: there is more timbre and ‘shape’ to transient sounds such as percussion and the leading edge of notes helping to identify the instrument used. There are more cues and guides to the real performance. Soundstage goes deeper than before. Air and space are enhanced. Dynamics can be explosive while bass is surprisingly better excavated giving tremendous weight to some music. Various Music ExamplesGenesis – The Cinema Show: so very much went into this recording from 1973 (such a good year for great recordings) and I have clearly never heard all that is now revealed. There are a mass of percussive elements which are all now distinct even while the sound gets busy, but it all remains coherent. Bass is quite amazingly better, more structural throughout with nice weight in the crescendos. Pink Floyd – Cymbaline: a tremendous sense of space and depth but the music retains its body in this 1969 recording. The best I have ever heard this song, a great early indicator of their skills. Larry Carlton - Take Me Down: features his guitar stage left and harmonica to the right. There is more attack to the guitar and the pulses of air movement are enhanced. The two instruments interact really nicely towards the end of the piece. Black Lab – This Night (Live): unbelievably vivid and immediate recording, now even more spectacular than before and with realistic audience clapping at the end. Gone Gone Beyond – Little Moon: suddenly the delay effect on their voices becomes very obvious. The bass is room-shaking and very tight, especially that big plunge. Deep Purple – When a Blind Man Cries: great to hear this 1972 recording sound so good. The lead guitar is as gorgeous as anything I know and the drums accompany with some power. Christina Pluhar – Romanesca (from All’ Improvviso): now so pinpoint focused that I can hear exactly where each performer is sitting. The dulcimer sounds incredible with so much harmonic detail. Bach Goldberg – Gould: the piano! The humming! The singing! More realistic, warts and all. Oscar Peterson – Blues Etude: very live feel, intoxicating piano sound (and playing) from 1966. Stravinsky Rite – Gergiev: bigger sense of the acoustic, orchestra in superb focus, fantastic mind-blowing clean crescendos. Conclusion: the Coherent modified Gustard U18 exhibits resolution on another level from the stock unit without losing any of its attributes and while gaining considerable heft, too. coherent-systems.co.uk
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Post by stellabagpuss on Jul 22, 2022 19:41:14 GMT
Was toying with changing my DAC, you just changed my mind Martin. It's sounds like the mods have moved things up another level.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 22, 2022 19:42:23 GMT
I should have added: the U18 sits on four Black Ravioli Pads and has a granite coaster and heavy weight on top. It is fed power via a Coherent 6D power cable from a PS Audio P3 regenerator and has two SR Purple fuses in the power cable and rear panel. It takes an AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown external clock via a Belden 4694R clock cable. It receives USB input from a Mad Scientist Black Magic USB cable and it sends I2S output via a Blue Jeans FE HDMI cable.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Jul 23, 2022 6:52:14 GMT
Interesting comment you made about measurement of noise, what does 2.5x mean? A reduction by 2.5x ? Just wondering if you any figures,not a biggy.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 23, 2022 7:56:55 GMT
Very approximately, as I remember when looking at Tony's analyser, the U18 noise was worse than -120dB in stock form. After modding, it was showing close to -130dB. That's when playing a digital zero feed (in other words, properly decoding data).
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Post by stellabagpuss on Jul 23, 2022 8:03:29 GMT
Brilliant Martin, and many thanks for real world measurements.
l bet your having a similar experience again when you 1st used your U18, noticing bits on music, that where just hinted at beforehand.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 23, 2022 9:57:10 GMT
l bet your having a similar experience again when you 1st used your U18, noticing bits on music, that where just hinted at beforehand. Oh yes, across everything. Some of the albums I have known since being a teenager from Genesis, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd and Deep Purple are revealing new things I had not heard before. I'm playing Steely Dan's Gaucho at the moment and the attack is something else. |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 26, 2022 18:25:30 GMT
Some days later and the U18 has improved further. Now it's in the area of extreme focus and even more 'shape' to the music.
A good example of this is Limbo from the Yello album Toy. Always a detailed, dynamic track, now the mono, stereo, pinpoint and defocussed aspects of the different synth sounds is magnified.
I am really astonished at the extent to which the DDC appears to modify the performance of the DAC. However, that's exactly what it's doing, pushing the potential of the already excellent X26 Pro further upwards. It's probably time we treated the DDC/DAC as a symbiotic whole.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 5, 2022 20:58:08 GMT
Well l am two hours into listening to my Modded U18 by Tony of Coherent.
Straight from the off,first track l played was Kim Mitchell's Rockland, more air,space, lower trails on snare drums due to the lowering of noise.
And as MartinT has already stated, track after track is offering up musical ques you simply unable to hear, the low frequencies now has more grunt,its quite hard to put into words, as it's digital, like l have never experienced, great timing, presented without digital stress.
l do have some pictures of before and after Tony mods, and some screen shots of noise readings,before and after, l won't pretend to know or understand the meanings, but for the techie, they should understand it.
Just listening to Sade's Cherry Pie,wow..
Damien
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Post by John on Aug 6, 2022 4:50:33 GMT
Great result. Been a while since I listened to Kim Mitchel
Looking forward to seeing you on Monday with Vic should be a interesting session
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Post by MartinT on Aug 6, 2022 6:12:46 GMT
Just listening to Sade's Cherry Pie,wow.. Oh yes, Sade sounds quite superb now  Do let us see the photos. |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 6, 2022 6:17:05 GMT
Will try to add tonight, for myself this is better investment than just purchasing another DAC.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Aug 6, 2022 8:40:25 GMT
Must be something in these DDC's then as two people at geographically different locations and totally different systems report similar effects who would have thought it 
It will take around 50-60 hours to fully settle in (thats in use time) rather than just being switched on. However it is pretty obvious from the outset it delivers a more positive performance right across the whole sound scape.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 6, 2022 9:23:01 GMT
Definitely in regards to time, the mods Tony has made, are great, your hearing deeper into mixes, and it's obvious, straight away, l can certainly recommend mod to U18 unit.Via l2s it's something to be experienced. l actually wanted to carry on listening last night,it was sounding so intimate.
John , Vic and myself are having a meet up on Monday for DDC off,with the Audio GD,should be great fun, l also bringing my AD clock,so should be interesting.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 6, 2022 9:26:55 GMT
Must be something in these DDC's then as two people at geographically different locations and totally different systems report similar effects who would have thought it
It will take around 50-60 hours to fully settle in (thats in use time) rather than just being switched on. However it is pretty obvious from the outset it delivers a more positive performance right across the whole sound scape.
I agree and it's not clear why the U18 performs so well. Your mods have made it even better, so thank you for that, Tony. The sheer detail, knockout dynamics, huge soundstage and lack of harshness all prove that a DDC should be taken seriously. |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 6, 2022 9:40:33 GMT
Must be something in these DDC's then as two people at geographically different locations and totally different systems report similar effects who would have thought it
It will take around 50-60 hours to fully settle in (thats in use time) rather than just being switched on. However it is pretty obvious from the outset it delivers a more positive performance right across the whole sound scape.
I agree and it's not clear why the U18 performs so well. Your mods have made it even better, so thank you for that, Tony. The sheer detail, knockout dynamics, huge soundstage and lack of harshness all prove that a DDC should be taken seriously. I didn't realise it was Tony l was replying to! |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Aug 6, 2022 10:55:04 GMT
I agree and it's not clear why the U18 performs so well. Your mods have made it even better, so thank you for that, Tony. The sheer detail, knockout dynamics, huge soundstage and lack of harshness all prove that a DDC should be taken seriously. I didn't realise it was Tony l was replying to! Arh yes Damien I thought the forum name would give it away lol
I have a spare Mutec ref 10 SE-120 (stock) for a couple of days before it goes to an new owner next week if you wish to borrow for Monday plus a coupe fo different bnc cables if you wish including a ultra high quality RF test lead bnc<>bnc thats has the best measurments I have ever seen on any cable welcome to take it for the session. I have plenty of them and clocks.
DDC's are imho essential in any digital reply chain no matter what the dac or transport, having owned and used the Taiko reference and MSB Select II (thats has an internal 33fS proper clock) contray to belief they are not imprevious to the effects of DDC's.
This is an image of a few' of the DDC's this gent has is his system, GD audio 120/Apogee big ben/Drawmer master clock/Two Mc3+'s in series and a Ref10 SE-120 slaving the lot of them. Maybe a touch overkill but he is firmly under no illusion of the benefits. He is also an Emeritus Professor School of Computer Science and Electronic Engineering.
Personally I'm happy with just a pair in series with a master ref clock |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 6, 2022 11:37:05 GMT
Many thanks for the offer Tony, realistically l can't take you up the offer, l am in work today, Newport South Wales on Sunday, then Rushden on Monday......
Just realised l sound like Craig David. 😆
But l am in agreement with your MartinT and yourself, DDC bring a whole new level quality to digital.
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 6, 2022 12:49:49 GMT
Could you remind me what the rest of your system is Damien?
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 6, 2022 13:40:29 GMT
Could you remind me what the rest of your system is Damien? My set up is a Windows based PC, separate PSU etc Jriver, Fidilizer, Lasso Pro, and Matrix Element H USB Card. The Matrix card runs straight into my U18 then l2s to SMSL M400 DAC The U18 unit is bypassed and run using a AfterDark Clock and PSU Amp's Nord acoustic 1ET400A Monoblocks Behringer inuke DSP 1000 for subs Speakers Definitive Technology S7 2 x Kicker 15" in sealed cabs 2 x Tannoy VS10BP Band pass subs That's a brief description Damien |
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