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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 23, 2022 8:03:35 GMT
Just thought l would share my views and journey so far with the Gustard U18.
My set up is a Windows based PC, separate PSU etc Jriver, Fidilizer, Lasso Pro, and Matrix Element H USB Card. The Matrix card runs straight into my SMSL M400 DAC.
So my vision was to use the USB input from the Matrix card, then output using I2s back into the M400.
Unfortunately, at the moment, l am having to use a generic 1m HDMI cable, as l am waiting on HDMI lead l ordered to arrive. In regards to USB cable, l am running a Hama Doubled Sheilded Cable. Also the,U18 power lead is stock.
So plenty of room for tweaking in the future.
So how does it sound? What l can say, you can't really judge the sound in a hour, as it doesn't reach it potential in a few hours.
What l can say,the better your input, better the U18 will sound,sure you can plug a Laptop in, and gain an improvement, but there is a vast difference if you run it from USB Matrix or Jcat card.
So initially, l thought the sound was a subtle improvement, but after 15 hours of use,l am very happy,better imaging, placement, and lower noise floor, even at the early days, my setup sounds the best it ever has,most importantly it has a very non fatiguing sound,so it's easy to loose track of time.
l will update,l as things progress.
Damien
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Post by MartinT on Feb 23, 2022 8:24:51 GMT
That's very interesting, Damien. Are you comparing the U18 with the USB going straight into the DAC?
My equivalent is the Mutec MC-3+ USB with master clock, which takes USB in and provides AES out to my Gustard DAC. Same observations.
I will get the chance to hear a U18 over the weekend. I don't expect it to better the Mutec but you never know. I'll report back here.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 23, 2022 9:51:47 GMT
Only comparing PC Matrix USB input into U18,then I2s output to SMSL DAC.
Of course the U18 will output in USB as well as others.
Went the l2s option, as its supposed to be jitter free.
What l would say Martin,give it plenty of time to warm up,what you hear in the 1st 40 minutes, is improved upon,as time goes on.
Yes there are probably better reclockers, but at this price point, it's a bargain, especially when you can run an external clock,so lots of potential for playing and improving.
Post your opinions back the thread Martin, as it's interesting how things are starting to get to sensible price point these days
Damien
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Post by John on Feb 23, 2022 17:00:25 GMT
I wish it had more than a USB input but it looks a great bargain
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 23, 2022 19:11:46 GMT
Yes John, lt's limited in regards to inputs, l guess it's aimed at PC and Streamer users.
lt does open the door for a quality 10mhz clock, not that the U18 is poor,but it would be interesting to see if an improvement could be gained if Afterdark clock was plumbed in.
Damien
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Post by MartinT on Feb 23, 2022 19:46:15 GMT
I'll try it with my AfterDark clock, too.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 23, 2022 20:51:38 GMT
Excellent Martin, that should be interesting.
Damien
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Post by MartinT on Feb 26, 2022 17:57:48 GMT
Today John and I had a very interesting time listening to his Gustard U18 in my system.
To help with understanding what we did, let me explain that the U18 is a DDC (Digital to Digital Converter) sometimes known as a standards converter and/or reclocker. It is a direct competitor with the Mutec MC-3+ USB that I use between my ultraRendu streamer and Gustard DAC. It takes USB input and reclocks it to a low noise level, sending output via various interfaces to the DAC. In my case, the Mutec has been modded by Coherent for 5V operation and with several component changes to improve its performance.
We started off by placing it into my system in as close a configuration as before, just to make an initial comparison. SO, USB in from the ultraRendu, AES out to the X26 Pro DAC, with internal clock selected and SGS-1s grounding box. Bear in mind that it was stone cold and not fully burned-in, I was using an MCRU No. 9 power cable with no special fuses, and I did not use any Black Ravioli feet underneath it. The ultraRendu immediately recognised the U18 so we were ready to go. On initial listening, then, it sounded a bit flat and lifeless with reduced soundstage and a lack of attack. We played a few tracks and it was clearly improving as it warmed up. Nevertheless, not a promising start.
Then we decided to give it an external clock. I know how good my AfterDark clocks are but John had never heard a direct comparison before. I connected my AD King (the lesser of my two AfterDark clocks) to the U18 and selected external clock. My goodness, the soundstage opened up and went deeper, dynamics improved and the music became instantly more fluid and vivid. We played more music and this was now enjoyable and the sound quality was roughly on a par with the Mutec - high praise indeed.
LESSON #1 - use the U18 with a good external clock. It raises the performance level considerably.
Next, we tried switching to the IIS (sometimes called I2S) interface from U18 to DAC. Out came the AES cable and in went my spare Blue Jeans FE HDMI cable, designed for IIS. I switched the DAC to IIS input and we put some more music on.
At this point I need to try describing what happened without becoming aerated. John and I were bowled over at the difference this made. The soundstage moved immediately forward but background sounds were as far away as ever. Dynamics and vividness were at an all-time high. Fine detail was incredible yet harshness was down - one of those rare events where an increase in resolution was not accompanied by additional brightness or glare. Complex music like Kate Bush's Waking the Witch sounded way less congested and easier to hear into the mix. Paul Simon's voice was less sibilant. The attack on guitar and the shimmer of the cymbal in Norah Jones' Come Away With Me fully justified the 24/192 format from Qobuz.
LESSON #2 - try to use the IIS output if at all possible. Eliminating S/PDIF by sending the data almost directly to the DAC chipset gives greater dividends than imagined.
By this time, we stopped for a cuppa and to digest what we had just learned. Further listening later on just confirmed what we had learned.
In conclusion, the Gustard U18 DDC is a formidable bit of kit provided you a) use a good clock and b) use the IIS output. In combination with my Gustard X26 Pro DAC, there is no doubting its true high end credentials, never mind the relatively low price.
Just when I thought I'd wrapped up major component upgrades, I'm going to have to buy one.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 26, 2022 20:44:18 GMT
Great review Martin, l didn't want to overstate how good the l2S was,as l haven't many Hi Fi friends, there all on line, so there no bench mark l guess.
l have been doing double takes all week,with various tracks,noticing little production effects that where buried. Certainly a Hugh Hi Fi moment for myself.
Better start saving for a top of line After Dark Clock.....
Still plenty of little mods to do yet,l still can't believe that my freebie crappie HDMI is delivering such a good sound, roll on the good lead.
Damien
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Post by MartinT on Feb 26, 2022 21:26:27 GMT
The Blue Jeans FE (Belden) HDMI cable I have is 2ft long (stupid imperial units: 600mm) so I'm going to order a 1ft (300mm) version as the distance is a very short link. I know I2S is sensitive to cable length so I'll keep it short, like my clock cables.
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2022 5:42:35 GMT
A interesting session with Martin today for sure. To be honest I had little expectations for the U18 as was planning to sell the U18.
Before seeing Martin I was going to put this on eBay and see what I could get for it. I had tried with my W10 Laptop and the harsh treble from the Laptop was to much for me.
Martin first played a few songs before hearing the U18. The system sounded the best I heard. I" was impressed with the effortless and dynamics from the system.
Martin has describe the differences well, what he failed to my mention was that my jaw was nearly on the floor with the shock of what I was hearing once Martin went to I2s.
For me it was like a sheet was lifted covering the speakers. More depth scale clout detail without a hint of treble stress or harshness, even on really complex tracks music made more sense, due to how well it is resolved.
At the start of this I had no intention of ever moving back to a server based system. The U18 is staying and I will look out for a USB based network bridge
This is a sensible upgrade to any USB based system and I for one will be going down this PATH.
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Post by brettj on Feb 27, 2022 7:13:11 GMT
I'm similar to you Damien, but I have no local HiFi friends.
My family is no help, so any differences I find, I share with myself or online.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 27, 2022 7:53:41 GMT
Still plenty of little mods to do yet,l still can't believe that my freebie crappie HDMI is delivering such a good sound, roll on the good lead. Which cable did you order, Damien? |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 27, 2022 8:18:27 GMT
I'm similar to you Damien, but I have no local HiFi friends. My family is no help, so any differences I find, I share with myself or online. Yes,same hear,hopefully will get the chance to meet up with some of the chaps this year, Virtual Friends lol 😆 Not a phrase l thought l be using in the 80s Damien |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 27, 2022 8:24:35 GMT
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gat474
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 13
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Post by gat474 on Feb 27, 2022 10:58:33 GMT
I’m waiting for my U18 to arrive to go with my X26pro dac. I wasn’t planning on an external clock quite yet but happy to use the I2S cable. Did you try the U18 to the X26pro vis I2S without an external clock?
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2022 11:00:41 GMT
No we did not
But Damien uses that way
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 27, 2022 11:02:53 GMT
I’m waiting for my U18 to arrive to go with my X26pro dac. I wasn’t planning on an external clock quite yet but happy to use the I2S cable. Did you try the U18 to the X26pro vis I2S without an external clock? Welcome to TAS Good to see you get stuck in right away !  |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Feb 27, 2022 14:43:29 GMT
I’m waiting for my U18 to arrive to go with my X26pro dac. I wasn’t planning on an external clock quite yet but happy to use the I2S cable. Did you try the U18 to the X26pro vis I2S without an external clock? I found an improvement without a external clock, I2S from the U18 to your DAC smashes USB at my end, l run a SMSL M400. I found that the U18 benefits from a good low jitter source and quiet psu supply as a input.Sure you can just plug a Laptop in, and get a small improvement, but feed it a good source, and it can really sing via I2S to DAC. That's seems the beauty of the U18, you can improve things further down the line,once you have funds for a clock. Damien |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 27, 2022 15:04:10 GMT
I’m waiting for my U18 to arrive to go with my X26pro dac. I wasn’t planning on an external clock quite yet but happy to use the I2S cable. Did you try the U18 to the X26pro vis I2S without an external clock? Hi and welcome to TAS! No, we went in the order of stock (with grounding box), then with external clock, then with I 2S. What I can say is that the improvement with I 2S was so large that you're bound to like what the U18 does even without an external clock. You can always leave that as a future upgrade. Nice choice of DAC! |
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