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Post by karatestu on Feb 17, 2022 6:10:14 GMT
Is there a rule of thumb as to what sounds best in everything- source, amps, speakers, supports ?
I used to think heavy was best no question, especially with speakers. But over time my view has started to change. Does a light speaker sound more lively for example and why ? Does an overly heavy speaker or stand sound dull and boring ? Years ago it was drummed into me that a speaker must be heavy to stop it moving in reaction to the drivers moving and that mass would stop it vibrating as much.
It turns out both of those things are bollox. Speaker and driver isolation has disproved them both for me. Heavy just means the box's resonant frequency is increased to where it is less easily excited but the vibration is still there and may be going on for a longer duration. I have never had any BBC style damped thin wall construction type speakers which is one end of the spectrum. I have read of spherical carbon fibre speakers which apparently sounded best with 1mm thick walls and so very light.
I don't suppose it matters for amps but TT's are well known to sound different if in a light or heavy plinth and you hear of LP12's sounding better on cheap light supports like an Ikea lack table. Are there any rule of thumbs here of is it suck it and see ?
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2022 6:36:12 GMT
I think your point about removing vibration is key to getting the best out of your speakers. I remember Martin speakers pre podiums, lots of potential but certain frequencies would dominate. Adding the Podiums allowed his speakers to perform closer to their potential and more importantly no frequency response dominated.
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Post by karatestu on Feb 17, 2022 8:46:17 GMT
I think your point about removing vibration is key to getting the best out of your speakers. I remember Martin speakers pre podiums, lots of potential but certain frequencies would dominate. Adding the Podiums allowed his speakers to perform closer to their potential and more importantly no frequency response dominated. Hello John. Do you think the weight of the material used to make the speakers is not important when the drivers are isolated from it (and the whole thing isolated from the floor) ? I would hazard a guess that it is less likely to matter but I haven't researched that theory. I was wary of making my speakers (and the integral stand) too heavy due to things I had heard about it killing the openness of the sound. I don't know if there is any real truth to the things I have heard and it is dangerous to take things as gospel, I have found things to be a good improvement that others have said would make things worse or no difference at best. Anyway, my speakers have turned out heavier than I had planned but I never tried them without isolation under them or with drivers rigidly attached. They don't seem to have lost any life so maybe there is something in the idea that weight doesn't matter if all the drivers are isolated. The added weight does though make it easier to get a very low resonant frequency with the inner tube isolation. |
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 17, 2022 8:51:01 GMT
I think heaviness may have become conflated with stiffness/rigidity somewhere along the way. Stiffness and/or rigidity is usually achieved most cost effectively by using cheap materials and bracing them extensively. With that often comes weight. That doesn't necessarily mean that weight per se is a desirable quality.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by karatestu on Feb 17, 2022 9:04:00 GMT
I think heaviness may have become conflated with stiffness/rigidity somewhere along the way. Stiffness and/or rigidity is usually achieved most cost effectively by using cheap materials and bracing them extensively. With that often comes weight. That doesn't necessarily mean that weight per se is a desirable quality. Just my thoughts. Hi Chris, Good point, one which I had overlooked. My enclosure is a 30cm steel sphere with 3mm walls. It doesn't weigh much for the high rigidity it offers (sphere is a very rigid shape and has the lowest surface area for a given volume). I haven't braced it at all and it doesn't ring like one might imagine. |
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2022 9:04:43 GMT
I think your point about removing vibration is key to getting the best out of your speakers. I remember Martin speakers pre podiums, lots of potential but certain frequencies would dominate. Adding the Podiums allowed his speakers to perform closer to their potential and more importantly no frequency response dominated. Hello John. Do you think the weight of the material used to make the speakers is not important when the drivers are isolated from it (and the whole thing isolated from the floor) ? I would hazard a guess that it is less likely to matter but I haven't researched that theory. I was wary of making my speakers (and the integral stand) too heavy due to things I had heard about it killing the openness of the sound. I don't know if there is any real truth to the things I have heard and it is dangerous to take things as gospel, I have found things to be a good improvement that others have said would make things worse or no difference at best. Anyway, my speakers have turned out heavier than I had planned but I never tried them without isolation under them or with drivers rigidly attached. They don't seem to have lost any life so maybe there is something in the idea that weight doesn't matter if all the drivers are isolated. The added weight does though make it easier to get a very low resonant frequency with the inner tube isolation. Most high-end speakers are heavy. But then you can go open baffle and get really good sounds. I would say allowing the drivers to work at their potential is key. I also think room interaction plays a part I presume most heavy speakers design is more about isolation, mainly from the bass driver that can produce a lot of energy that can affect the mids and treble |
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 17, 2022 9:19:00 GMT
It's always struck me as a bit funny that drivers are protected by speaker designers from vibrations within the speakers themselves yet they are pummelled by the waves they set up within the atmosphere of the room they sit in.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 17, 2022 9:30:52 GMT
My speakers are big and heavy but also open (transparent) in their sound quality. I put this down to the extreme rigidity of the boat-hull shaped cabinet. Knocking them gives a dead thunk.
Driver quality is very important, too. Those beryllium midrange and tweeters have very low mass moving domes.
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 17, 2022 9:33:03 GMT
My estimate is weight has a part to play but not vital -Subject to change as soon as someone proves different  |
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 17, 2022 10:04:36 GMT
It's always struck me as a bit funny that drivers are protected by speaker designers from vibrations within the speakers themselves yet they are pummelled by the waves they set up within the atmosphere of the room they sit in. So, for example, what do reflected bass freq. waves do to the output of a tweeter? |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 17, 2022 10:49:54 GMT
So, for example, what do reflected bass freq. waves do to the output of a tweeter? Intermodulation - that thing we try to avoid at all costs. |
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 17, 2022 10:54:37 GMT
A fool's errand?
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Post by MartinT on Feb 17, 2022 12:28:12 GMT
I think speaker driver manufacturers have worked hard to make them behave as linearly as possible. Not much we can do to improve them, that I can think of.
So yes - a fool's errand!
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 17, 2022 12:48:02 GMT
Yeah, rhetorical question really.
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