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Post by ChrisB on Oct 4, 2021 0:05:07 GMT
There are a few brands that I would never have invested in for a major component throughout the time when I was exploring gear. I don't know why, but they just never seemed to excite or offer anything of interest. The main people to suffer from my indifference would be Arcam and Meridian. For all I know, this irrational bias may have made my journey through the world of system building much more difficult. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone else has had such biases in ther time.
Cheers Chris
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Post by John on Oct 4, 2021 4:26:39 GMT
I always avoided Naim I think mainly because how they were advertised. I never had bought anything by Cyrus as did not like the aesthetics. I never tried Aracam or Meridian in my system either but no real reason for not trying them.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 4, 2021 4:50:24 GMT
I always avoided Naim and Linn, although this could be construed as rational bias as I rarely heard a good system using their components and always considered them overpriced.
I agree about Meridian, they never lit my fire. The same goes for dCS.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 4, 2021 6:38:28 GMT
Yes, I had a rational bias against both Linn and Naim, too! Though, I did own a Naim CDI for a long time, it was a competition prize and I woukd never have bought it.
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 4, 2021 9:22:38 GMT
Naim and Linn did the business for me for well over 30 years. I'd listen to both again if they were presented to me but wouldn't do anything else. Many years ago my bias used to be against "JapCrap" Now here I am with Japanese CD/DAC/Pre, Power amp and speakers ! Yours faithfully Mr.Wrong
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Post by MartinT on Oct 4, 2021 9:32:18 GMT
Many years ago my bias used to be against "JapCrap" I used to feel the same about their cars. Now I know they are much better made than German cars.
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Post by TheMooN on Oct 4, 2021 10:43:28 GMT
Naim and Linn...Count me in
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Post by MartinT on Oct 4, 2021 11:09:45 GMT
If we're going to talk models, the Naim DBL were truly one of the most awful speakers I've ever heard, on more than one occasion. They did a very good emulation of cheap party speakers.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 4, 2021 11:12:42 GMT
I have an entirely rational distaste of Linn and Naim, so can't include this.
My first thought is modern Musical Fidelity. Back in the day I absolutely loved the A1 integrated so why shouldn't their later gear be any good? I've never heard any of it but for some reason I distrust it, especially at the prices asked.
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 4, 2021 13:21:04 GMT
Many years ago my bias used to be against "JapCrap" I used to feel the same about their cars. Now I know they are much better made than German cars. Had we known about Deming and the way the Japanese took to it we could have seen it coming
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Post by petea on Oct 4, 2021 18:03:59 GMT
I'm not sure if I've ever had any irrational bias against a particular brand. The closest would be NAD back in the late 80s I suppose as I just couldn't understand why people got so excited about their amplifiers in particular. I am also not fond of Naim amplifiers or speakers and think the CD players are a bit lack-lustre for the price. I do like their streamers though, but only probably because my first 'ears on' experience was of them at Winchester HiFi. I do though only use them as digital transports and do not use their internal DACs and they do not figure in my main playback chain so I have no desire to look at alternatives. I also think the Mu-So Qb is a super 'kitchen' all-in-one and the Uniti Atom paired with Neat Iota Alpha speakers makes a great compact streamer system (and is perfect for our living room here in Germany).
My third, and current, turntable is based on a late 80s LP12, but is heavily modified and so is probably not typical of one from Linn directly. Back when it was made I was aware of them, but it was not something I was hoping to 'aspire' to and was more interested in direct-drive units at the time. That didn't last though and I ended up back in the belt-driven world.
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 5, 2021 11:58:15 GMT
I have avoided Naim having heard several systems with Naim amps, their sound was not for me, I avoided Linn mainly because a friend purchased an LP12 and he advised me and a friend not to buy one as at the time a Pink Triangle gave a better result for the money.
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Post by petea on Oct 5, 2021 13:26:15 GMT
I agree, Pink Triangle and latterly Funk make some great products and are certainly also excellent value for money (I use a Funk arm and mat). They (Arthur) can be tricky to deal with and get things from though.
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Post by Slinger on Oct 5, 2021 14:33:33 GMT
Hating Micro$haft with every fibre of my being is, in no way, irrational, and I will set fire to anyone who says it is!!!!!!!! Just kidding. Maybe. This thread reminds me of the good old days of digital art and 3d modelling. Those who used Macs would get very VERY annoyed with us PC users because their machines were first to the table, and Macs were widely adopted as the standard professional tools in digital graphics, and digital type-setting, industries. PC's not only caught up, but because of their larger share of the marketplace, overtook the Mac in many cases. That really annoyed them, and of course a lot of PC users enjoyed poking them with a (digital) stick over it. Take Photoshop: Photoshop was initially only available on the Mac. Then, in 1993, Adobe's chief architect ported Photoshop to Microsoft Windows. The Windows port led to Photoshop reaching a wider mass market audience as Microsoft's global reach expanded within the next few years. This story was echoed by many other pieces of " industry standard" software, and in fairly short order " original" PC programs were developed too, and in many cases ported to Macs. To Mac owners us PC users would always be brash young upstarts, and to us PC bods, Mac users were living in the past. Both views were, of course, utter rubbish. Having worked in a digital art studio it was immediately obvious to me that both Macs and PC were being used in the same environment, on the same network, and files coukld quite happily be formatted for transfer between the two machine types, and between two different artists working on the same piece. The war still raged on over the forums though, and " war" is not too strong a word either. Flame wars proliferated for a long while before, eventually, cooling down. Total irrational brand bias. People using the same piece of software on Macs and PCs would even argue that their version was superior. DUH! As an admin on a digital art forum it was often a case of pulling them apart and holding them up by their collars, metaphorically speaking, obviously, and then banging their heads together. Pretty soon word got around that we were not to be trifled with, and starting Mac v PC flame wars was not conducive to long-term membership of our forum.
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 5, 2021 15:46:53 GMT
Hating Micro$haft with every fibre of my being is, in no way, irrational, and I will set fire to anyone who says it is!!!!!!!! Just kidding. Maybe. This thread reminds me of the good old days of digital art and 3d modelling. Those who used Macs would get very VERY annoyed with us PC users because their machines were first to the table, and Macs were widely adopted as the standard professional tools in digital graphics, and digital type-setting, industries. PC's not only caught up, but because of their larger share of the marketplace, overtook the Mac in many cases. That really annoyed them, and of course a lot of PC users enjoyed poking them with a (digital) stick over it. Take Photoshop: Photoshop was initially only available on the Mac. Then, in 1993, Adobe's chief architect ported Photoshop to Microsoft Windows. The Windows port led to Photoshop reaching a wider mass market audience as Microsoft's global reach expanded within the next few years. This story was echoed by many other pieces of " industry standard" software, and in fairly short order " original" PC programs were developed too, and in many cases ported to Macs. To Mac owners us PC users would always be brash young upstarts, and to us PC bods, Mac users were living in the past. Both views were, of course, utter rubbish. Having worked in a digital art studio it was immediately obvious to me that both Macs and PC were being used in the same environment, on the same network, and files coukld quite happily be formatted for transfer between the two machine types, and between two different artists working on the same piece. The war still raged on over the forums though, and " war" is not too strong a word either. Flame wars proliferated for a long while before, eventually, cooling down. Total irrational brand bias. People using the same piece of software on Macs and PCs would even argue that their version was superior. DUH! As an admin on a digital art forum it was often a case of pulling them apart and holding them up by their collars, metaphorically speaking, obviously, and then banging their heads together. Pretty soon word got around that we were not to be trifled with, and starting Mac v PC flame wars was not conducive to long-term membership of our forum. I think you have forgotten the good old Acorn A5000 RiscOS machines which were truly good, at the time it was 4 times faster than an equivalent PC and the graphics were VG for the time, gamers loved them. They were way ahead of their time and actually did some extremely good graphics tools, unfortunately Acorn pitched themselves on the education bandwagon rather than keeping a broad brush approach and going for business as well and Joe Public. I only sold mine as I had to get a big PC to run Windows NT at home to help support my job and for me to keep up to speed with windows.
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Post by Slinger on Oct 5, 2021 16:30:09 GMT
Not so much forgotten as ignored, Adrian. They were never at the races, professionally speaking, and to extend my creaking metaphor even further, it was only ever a two-horse race. It doesn't matter how good a computer is, as it sounds like you found out, it's industry uptake and available software that will probably end up defining it. Dare I say it? It's horses for courses. All the while the first shiny new Macs were being introduced to the workplace, banking was still being run by IBM machines with paper tape and punch cards programmed in RPG. Machine shops were running lathes and routers via lumps of prehistoric iron quite happily stuck in the land of Fortran. Until something much simpler, cheaper, more compact, more easily maintained, etc. and preferably more than one of those at a time comes along in a form that will increase output, cut wages, and with a decent and a demonstrable initial purchase cost recoup time, if it ain't broke, don't fix it has usually been industry's motto. It often takes a real seismic shift to drive a revolution, and that's what happened with the PC and the Mac in typesetting, layout, advertising, and any other industry they could gain a foothold in, and once they had a foothold... UNIX is the only other box that gives them a bit of a run for their money. and the UNIX/LINUX machines are usually locked in a discrete cupboard somewhere, and only those of us with the official pointy wizards hat (the special one, with the propellor on,) are allowed access to the key.
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Post by petea on Oct 5, 2021 18:09:28 GMT
And hiding under that shiny exterior in Mac OS is of course a SUS compliant variant of UNIX! You just need to put on the pointy hat and cool shades before opening Terminal.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 5, 2021 19:12:33 GMT
A dislike of Steve Jobs, a severe allergy towards religious-like followers and an entirely rational dislike of MacOS and, even worse, the walled-garden horror that is iOS has always kept me a healthy distance away from Apple.
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Post by ant on Oct 5, 2021 20:55:04 GMT
Ive never really got this, i have a pc for gaming, a mac for the music server, various android devices, and a laptop with ubuntu on it that i use for accounts and such.
This devotion to a platform is counterproductive ime, i wouldnt use a mac for gaming as its much easier to upgrade a pc for that, android for phones and internet browsing, picking up emails and all the daily shite is much more accessible than the pc is, i cant be bothered to go sit at the pc or mac for that. The ubuntu laptop is just dug out when its accounting time. The mac was used because of itunes, i had the dac plugged in directly. I dont stream or anything any more because it doesnt do anything for me so the mac is dusty. Just use the most convenient platform instead of buying into all the crap that comes with said platform. Pretty much every platform will talk to each other these days, so why all the tribalism?
If i want to i can go into the command lines on the pc to fix the same old dumbshit problems when they occur which is basically the same as it was 20 blummin years ago with win98, never had the need to go deeper into the mac for anything, havent with the ubuntu laptop either for that matter. My ancient c:/ knowledge from the pentium 2 era still gets me there if the need arises with the pc.
Back to hifi bits, the only ones i have a bias against is micromega, because of some very unreliable cd platers if theirs i had in the early 2000s
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Post by MartinT on Oct 5, 2021 21:05:06 GMT
I agree, mostly. I'm a big Windows, Android and Ubuntu fan, I like Debian on the Pi and I'm playing with Linux-based windowsfx at the moment. My background was in CP/M, MS-DOS, PertecOS, BeOS, Pick, GEM and some others. No tribalism here, I just wouldn't use an OS that locks you in so tightly to their way of thinking.
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