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Post by ChrisB on Sept 14, 2021 22:47:04 GMT
Album Choice Management Special
Marvin Gaye - ‘What’s Going On’ (1971) Due to a no-show for this spot on Album Choice, we’re having a Management Special. Fifty years old this year, this album became the biggest seller ever for Motown Records but when it was recorded they worried that it might ruin the artist’s career. Motown was all about singles and it certainly wasn’t releasing many artistic statements or protest albums. ‘What’s Going On’ was Marvin Gaye’s eleventh album. Here’s what the Wiki says about it: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8a8cutYP7fo_QS7XPDWQ79QlMT0MhSNx
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Post by MartinT on Sept 15, 2021 5:25:49 GMT
Thanks, Chris. I have sampled this before but need to have a proper listen.
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 15, 2021 7:03:02 GMT
Full disclosure on my part - I don't like this album!
This is why I felt it was a good choice for a management special, having just had my own turn on the rota.
However, I do own a copy, which I got about 18 years ago (maybe more) because I felt as though I ought to give it fair chance from repeated listenings, as it is touted as a bit of a landmark work. I have failed to engage with it every time I've played it.
Maybe this time will be different?
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Post by Mr Whippy on Sept 15, 2021 9:56:58 GMT
It was one of the last two LPs that I got from Virgin in Newcastle before it closed; Enter The Dragon Soundtrack was the other.
I like the this live version of the title track better. Sounds excellent too:
Not sure how anyone isn't touched by it.
For what it commented on in 1971 it was pretty much a landmark work. No one else had released anything previously of similar nature to similar acclaim, unless it went unrecognized.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 15, 2021 10:21:27 GMT
Tried it after you mentioned it a long time ago
I wanted to like it. Like you I fail to get it
5/10 previously.
Will try again
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Post by petea on Sept 15, 2021 11:04:27 GMT
I'll give it a go in a minutes, but I have a suspicion based on previous experice that I will struggle to see why it's so great. I did the same thing as you with "Pet Sounds" some years ago: still don't get it!
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Post by petea on Sept 15, 2021 11:18:31 GMT
Made it to half way through the second track. Bloody awful. Tedious and trite.
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Post by John on Sept 15, 2021 11:52:17 GMT
I get the political message Important even now. But sorry this is not really for me.
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Post by John on Sept 15, 2021 11:57:13 GMT
I am not sure to give it a 2 or a 1. I probably go for 2 as, I can see why people like it, but just not for me.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 15, 2021 12:54:33 GMT
I think the track What's Going On fully deserves its place in music history. The problem for me is that much of the album feels like essentially a refrain of that song, musically and thematically, but not as good. I feel short changed by it. It's really blatant too if you look at similarities between God is Love and the title track ... Mercy Mercy Me and Inner City Blues are quite superb however and do deserve their legendary status.
Its importance in terms of social issues at the time is another matter and shouldn't be underestimated.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 15, 2021 18:57:18 GMT
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Post by petea on Sept 15, 2021 19:01:59 GMT
I down-sampled it to 96K, maybe that's where I went wrong!
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Post by MartinT on Sept 15, 2021 19:02:59 GMT
Very nicely recorded with a big wide and deep soundstage and just a little sibilance on his voice.
As for the music, it sounds like so much other soul to me: fairly innocuous. The second track sounded like a variation on the first and so on. It doesn't challenge in any way and, for me, it's not particularly memorable. I confess to not hearing what the fuss is about as I could not distinguish it from a hundred other well produced soul albums.
2/5
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Post by Slinger on Sept 15, 2021 19:34:11 GMT
It's worth knowing this, to give a bit more insight regarding the album...
Gaye himself said: "In 1969 or 1970, I began to re-evaluate my whole concept of what I wanted my music to say ... I was very much affected by letters my brother was sending me from Vietnam, as well as the social situation here at home. I realized that I had to put my own fantasies behind me if I wanted to write songs that would reach the souls of people. I wanted them to take a look at what was happening in the world."
Gaye had also been deeply affected by the social ills plaguing the United States at the time, and covered the track "Abraham, Martin & John", in 1969, which became a UK hit for him in 1970. Gaye cited the 1965 Watts riots as a pivotal moment in his life in which he asked himself, "with the world exploding around me, how am I supposed to keep singing love songs?" One night, he called Berry Gordy about doing a protest record, to which Gordy chastised him, "Marvin, don't be ridiculous. That's taking things too far".
I like to know about the songs I listen to if I like them, or if I'm evaluating them because the story of how the song came to be is often quite revealing. I don't mean I like to analyze things to death, but knowing "why" something was written can add an extra dimension to the music.
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 15, 2021 19:54:21 GMT
I was listening to it on and off all through the day today and I was going to reply to Jules' comment about it repeating itself, by saying that it's a kind of concept album and certain things throughout it tie the whole thing together.
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Post by Slinger on Sept 15, 2021 20:12:47 GMT
It's the same way a classical composer might use a leitmotif in an opera.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 15, 2021 20:24:43 GMT
Yeah I get that but it's a 35 minute album not a double album or an opera. If you are going to have repetitive musical themes they need to be used very sparingly over that kind of length. I don't think it's very clever to have a theme regurgitated over a number of songs.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 15, 2021 20:50:16 GMT
But, let's be honest, much of it sounds like very ordinary soul music. It hardly qualifies as a thematic song cycle but more like a bunch of very samey songs. It's not the same thing at all. The backing musicians sound like they're playing it by numbers.
He might have had a grand vision but the genre of soul is a poor one for a song cycle.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Sept 15, 2021 22:09:50 GMT
Have to say you're all out of sync with The Great Unwashed as in a recent poll it was voted the No. 1 album of all time. Must admit I was a bit surprised. Cannot say it would be mine, perhaps not even in the top 50. Still struggling to find the trite, though. Perhaps in the intervening 50 years people's music appreciation has become so much more sophisticated, than mine at least.
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Post by petea on Sept 16, 2021 8:13:20 GMT
A great choice of album, Chris, as it is causing quite some debate!
Number 1 album of all time! How? Why? Okay, it was certainly a change in terms maybe of lyrical content for Marvin Gaye and possibly a trigger for his target audience to question the world around them although I wonder why given how weak the 'message' was. At the time of its release there were many more potent voices out there in popular music.
What's Going On
[Intro]
Hey, hey-hey
Hey, what's happenin'?
Hey, brother, what's happenin'?
Boy, this is a groovy party (Hey, how you doin'?)
Man, I can dig it
Yeah, brother, solid, right on
What's happenin'?
Hey, man, what's happening?
Woo
Everything is everything
We're gonna do a get down today, boy, I'll tell ya
[Verse 1]
Mother, mother
There's too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother
There's far too many of you dying
You know we've got to find a way
To bring some loving here today, yeah
[Verse 2]
Father, father
We don't need to escalate
You see, war is not the answer
For only love can conquer hate
You know we've got to find a way
To bring some loving here today, oh (Oh)
[Chorus]
Picket lines (Sister) and picket signs (Sister)
Don't punish me (Sister) with brutality (Sister)
Talk to me (Sister), so you can see (Sister)
Oh, what's going on (What's going on)
What's going on (What's going on)
Yeah, what's going on (What's going on)
Oh, what's going on
[Post-Chorus]
Ah-ah-ah-ah (In the meantime, right on, baby)
Woo (Right on, baby), woo
Ah-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya, ya-ya-ya-ya-ya
Woo (Right on, baby, right on), woo
Ah-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya
Ba-da-boo-doo, boo-boo-boo-doo, boo-boo-boo
Ba-da-boo-boo-boo-doo, boo-boo-boo-ba-ba-do
[Verse 3]
Mother, mother
Everybody thinks we're wrong
Oh, but who are they to judge us
Simply 'cause our hair is long?
Oh, you know we've got to find a way
To bring some understanding here today, oh-oh
[Chorus]
Picket lines (Brother) and picket signs (Brother)
Don't punish me (Brother) with brutality (Brother)
Come on, talk to me (Brother), so you can see (Brother)
Oh, what's going on (What's going on)
Yeah, what's going on (What's going on)
Tell me what's going on (What's going on)
I'll tell you what's going on (What's going on)
[Post-Chorus]
Woo-ooh-ooh-ooh (Right on, baby, right on)
Ah-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya, ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya
Woo, woo (Right on)
Ah-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya
Ba-da-boo-doo, boo-boo-boo-doo
Ba-da-boo-boo-boo-doo, ba-da-da-da-da-da-da
[Outro]
Woo (Right on, baby, come on, right on)
Ah-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya
Woo (Right on)
Listen, ah-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya
Da-boo-doo, boo-boo-boo-doo
Da-boo-boo-doo, boo-boo-boo
Potent and inciteful or shallow and trite? Maybe his intentions were good and he really was trying to express his outrage and frustration, but it feels and sounds more like a standard soul song with a few lines of social commentry thrown in than some form of protest song (and the same seems to be the case of the other songs on the album). Maybe that is the best he could manage, and I am not criticising him for that, but to cite that element as a reason to raise this song / album up seems flawed to me. Okay, that is all biased somewhat by my not enjoying the style and I understand that this was an attempt to make some sort of concept album, maybe with releated themes, but if so I think it fails and in part that is because, at least to me, it is too uniform in sound and delivery, too shallow in message and lacks distinctive re-emergent elements.
The work of Cat Stevens, Neil Young, Gil Scott-Heron, Joan Baez, Sixto Rodriguez, and later Tracy Chapman, convey much more anger, outrage and message that Marvin Gaye has achieved here I think.
Maybe this is a great soul album (I really cannot judge that), but I really do not consider it one that transcends genres because of that greatness and certainly not due to its lyrical conent or message.
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