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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 3, 2014 12:59:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 15:12:20 GMT
So what do you think anyone can practically do about it? Vaccines don't work as they only slow the disease and cattle are dying. So welfare of cattle v badgers your choice. Guess the cattle suffer more as well as the lively hood of farmers. By all means make a damn nuisance of yourself and get a police baton across your head. Doubt they will be able to shoot enough as badgers are a difficult moving target in the dark. Unfortunately gassing will be proved to be the only effective method of culling/disease control until a useful vaccine is developed.
Badgers are nice creatures to observe but if you get a badger run under your garden (protected) you likely would be out shooting them if allowed. There are some new houses being built behind my property in Bristol and they have had to provide a badger path around the site as the building has disturbed sets on previous waste ground (former tennis court). They seem to be keeping their side of the fence so far.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 3, 2014 16:03:22 GMT
From The New Scientist from a few years back, if I remember rightly....
Killing badgers doesn't work. 1. Cattle pass TB with their movements, so it has nowt to do with the badgers. So if you want to stop TB stop cattle movement - that is not acceptable to farmers - and they have votes. 2. If you kill badgers 'here' then neighbouring badgers move into the territory. 3. In the previous test area/s the cull results were inconclusive at best and likely proved nothing apart from some unskilled people giving too many badgers a painful and sometimes slow, painful death. 4. The Gumunt needs to be seen to be doing something - this is 'something'. 5. Not sure but I thought the vaccine was either working or about to, might need more development that is not being even considered. 6. Reading the link I posted this session seems to have been done on the quiet. This is not democratic process - certainly I knew nothing about it until I heard today.
I'm aware badgers can be vicious and we would have an issue with our small dogs. I only rarely see them and then as roadkill
Too ironic they are killed and protected - Kafka writing the script
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 3, 2014 18:32:36 GMT
I understood from seperate interviews with two of the people who the govt paid to advise them on this (and much of whose advice was ignored) that even if the last cull had had a 100 percent kill rate, it would only reduce the incidence of bovine TB in the cull area by 16%. That is so insignificant as to be a waste of time. They need to find anothr way and changing farming practices would seem to be a good start.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 3, 2014 19:22:09 GMT
Oh that bad. I forgot about the ignored advice, don't think I knew the figures were that bad
Changing farming practices though is a 'very serious thing' - some might say. Might disrupt someone's day
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Post by Greg on Sept 3, 2014 20:57:18 GMT
Regardless of the agricultural issues here, even urban environments can be very seriously affected by Badgers. We live on the outskirts of Bristol close to a heavily wooded valley where many Badger sets exist.
A few years back there was an explosion in Badger population and all our community saw them every night in our gardens and streets. Some people were so enthralled they ignorantly put out food for them at night with a view to encouraging their presence.
During that period, one morning we came downstairs to find that the well established turf on all out three lawns had been ripped up from boarder to boarder, owing to Badgers looking for grubs, particularly 'Leather Jackets'. It was a total destruction. They completely ruined our garden. We spent that day and night relaying and repairing all the turf, pressing down to get it as flat as possible. The next morning we came downstairs to find the same level of destruction in the garden. We relayed and repaired the turf as best we could and laid down some chemicals to eradicate earth living bugs. At the time I came very close to investing in an electric fence system to keep them out. Fortunately we have not had a repeated problem albeit our lawns have never had the evenness they once had. A couple of years after, a Badger found itself apparently trapped in my neighbours garden. It went mad, screaming out which woke up at least five households and eventually escaped by smashing it's way through our pretty solid boundary fence. More expense to repair it.
Badger presence after that season (although we still see them occasionally) declined and I believe, although I have no evidence to support this, that they were subjected to a local cull. No cattle around but their sets were in the wooded section of a public park and they did undermine footpaths causing collapse etc.
Badgers are indeed elegant and noble creatures, but without doubt they can be a nuisance both to the farmer and also the urban resident. They are robust scavengers that cause both damage and disease.
Whilst I understand the sentimentality associated with these native mammals, without doubt, they can be beasts of destruction. Achieving a balanced view between sentiment for the animal and the destructive impact they can inflict seems to me to be worth considering.
To put it another way, when they wandered through the garden it was a lovely experience both for my wife and I and our children, and now latterly our grand children. However, when they smashed up our garden, we didn't feel quite so sentimental about them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 23:32:51 GMT
I understood from seperate interviews with two of the people who the govt paid to advise them on this (and much of whose advice was ignored) that even if the last cull had had a 100 percent kill rate, it would only reduce the incidence of bovine TB in the cull area by 16%. That is so insignificant as to be a waste of time. They need to find anothr way and changing farming practices would seem to be a good start. If you read that statement back it is pretty stupid. How can they change farming practices - not allow cattle out in the fields and keep them in pens - animal cruelty. Perhaps you would like to give up all milk and beef. Black tea would be intolerable. Do agree shooting won't work as you can't possibly hit enough badgers and make a clean painless kill most of the time.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 4, 2014 7:13:55 GMT
"Meanwhile in Wales, they have reduced bovine TB by 50% in five years, a figure farmers in England would be ecstatic about. But this has taken place without a badger cull, with the emphasis on farming measures and, crucially, annual testing of cattle - because you cannot beat the disease if you do not know how many cows have bTB. The Welsh government have made it clear that this is the reason for their success - but the National Farmers' Union here in England refuse to do annual testing because they claim it costs too much. Yet they were prepared to spend £10m last year on killing 1861 badgers, and they are about to do the same again. It is a failure of judgement, a failed policy and it will fail their own members, the farmers who desperately need an effective solution." - See more at: www.networkforanimals.org/news/2014-badger-cull-given-go-ahead#sthash.PgY6lVoX.dpuf
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 4, 2014 7:28:01 GMT
Greg Different ball game and yes, I can appreciate the problem and not one I would want. The killing will leave your urban badgers alone unless you have farms close. Little bit of thought and urban badgers could be controlled without killing them
Well done the Welsh We can work out what NFU also stands for £10m to kill 1861 badgers is insane
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 4, 2014 9:11:42 GMT
Well, thanks for that! Read Jerry's post above for how to change farming practices. And it actually wouldn't do us any harm as a nation to eat less beef and drink less cows milk.
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