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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 29, 2021 18:30:40 GMT
In church yesterday.
A choir of around 20 plus small organ making a good sound, great harmonies and good voices
Real, live music from talented musicians
Except a nerdy, hifi bloke in my head told me this wasn't that good.
Flat, lacks dynamics, missing top end and bottom end
So why and what could be done ?
They are slightly above us punters in the stalls, 2 rows facing each other, not us so some of the sound is being lost.
Turn then through 90' to face us and that would help
Different ceilings, both high in the 2 parts of the church so maybe some sound is getting lost there too
Light on volume and no microphone/s I can see.
That would help I'm sure. How much mic placing expertise is required I wonder.
Trial and error should surely sort that even if there is no experience.
I assume no normal, sensible people had these thoughts !
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Post by MartinT on Aug 29, 2021 19:12:19 GMT
I have such thoughts. Many concerts I've heard have been spoiled by the acoustics, or I'm in the wrong place to appreciate the performance.
I think microphone placement is a proper skill, as really good recordings keep popping up with the same engineers and producers.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 29, 2021 19:33:25 GMT
Was such a shame as I'm sure the quality was there
Could have also been the acoustics but oddly enough there was a mic on the lectern for speech and that was fine.
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 29, 2021 19:36:03 GMT
Amplifying voices in a church???
Sacrilege!
Microphones should only be in a church for recording.
The only reason 20 voices and an organ won't sound any good in an old church with high ceilings that give you that beautiful decay, is the quality and ability of the choir.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 29, 2021 19:37:36 GMT
Seems a good move to me
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Post by Slinger on Aug 29, 2021 21:30:33 GMT
So... you spend loads of money on a hifi system that makes noises which are as close to the original, live, source, as it's possible to get, but you want this original live-source music to sound more like it was pre-recorded. Is that about right? Perhaps I've oversimplified that a bit.  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 30, 2021 10:37:07 GMT
Carrying on with the simplification
Studio album by Band X is great - on any system
Essential
Live album by Band X is the same tracks, muffled, indistinct, missing various bits, sounds like it was recorded from something in someone's back pocket
Shame, but I won't bother
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Post by MartinT on Aug 30, 2021 11:52:02 GMT
I came across a live recording recently that beats the studio version because of quite superb (and very simple) recording. It's a great song so well worth listening. By the way, the live version is on Qobuz and sounds better than Spotify.
Studio version...
Live version...
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 30, 2021 13:00:17 GMT
Agreed
From a very long time ago I was knocked out seeing this new band called Supertramp
They were stunning
Had to buy the album and, oh, this is good but not as good as they were live
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Post by MartinT on Aug 30, 2021 13:15:24 GMT
Have to say, though, Crime of the Century is a stupendous studio album.
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Post by Slinger on Aug 30, 2021 13:30:12 GMT
The trouble with those albums that sound like " it was recorded from something in someone's back pocket" is that they probably were.  Any decent recording engineer with access to the sound board and strategically placed mics should be able to get a good recording of a live gig, irrespective of the choice of venue itself. The trick is in gertting a GREAT recording of a live gig, and that involves somehow capturing the excitement of the audience, the mood of the band, and the actual sound itself. Personally I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of SQ for a live album that " feels" great. It's often said, I know, but you need to hear the music, not the recording, or your system's interpretation of it. The more highly tuned your system is the more technical faults it'll pick up and if that's all you can hear then you've lost the joy of music as pure entertainment. I've said before that Colosseum Live is probably my favouritelive live album. I dare say I could sit down with a few of you guys and play it through, and between us we could list everything that was " wrong" with that album. It would still be a fabulous live album in my book though. It's feel, not faults, if you like. That's why, back in the sixties/seventies EVERYTHING sounded great on you little transistor radio.  |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 30, 2021 13:40:34 GMT
I said quite a while back that Hawkwind - Space Ritual is my favourite live album. It's certainly not a great recording. I also remarked that it sounded better than ever of late - proof that a poor recording need not become unlistenable with system improvements.
I did giggle when Qobuz released it in 24/48 hi-res, but it does sound better than ever now.
None of this matters, Space Ritual will always rank highly for me as the music and performance are right up there with the greatest music I know, getting right under my skin.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 30, 2021 14:02:27 GMT
Have to say, though, Crime of the Century is a stupendous studio album. Different band then I saw them again on the Crime of the Century tour Wonderful They were quite well know by then  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 30, 2021 14:05:49 GMT
The trouble with those albums that sound like " it was recorded from something in someone's back pocket" is that they probably were. Any decent recording engineer with access to the sound board and strategically placed mics should be able to get a good recording of a live gig, irrespective of the choice of venue itself. The trick is in gertting a GREAT recording of a live gig, and that involves somehow capturing the excitement of the audience, the mood of the band, and the actual sound itself. Personally I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of SQ for a live album that " feels" great. It's often said, I know, but you need to hear the music, not the recording, or your system's interpretation of it. The more highly tuned your system is the more technical faults it'll pick up and if that's all you can hear then you've lost the joy of music as pure entertainment. I've said before that Colosseum Live is probably my favouritelive live album. I dare say I could sit down with a few of you guys and play it through, and between us we could list everything that was " wrong" with that album. It would still be a fabulous live album in my book though. It's feel, not faults, if you like. That's why, back in the sixties/seventies EVERYTHING sounded great on you little transistor radio. There are a few very good live albums and of course Colosseum Live is staggeringly good. Reminds me of the gig where they played those tracks Few live albums capture a band in their prime so well |
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 30, 2021 14:11:07 GMT
Thinking of some horrors
Gentle Giant were wonderful live.
Playing the fool is a good live album and well worth having
However I find most or all of their others range from not good to terrible
I have a few albums on CD with bonus tracks, from the original LP
Often of tracks on the album and often awful quality
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Post by MartinT on Aug 30, 2021 15:02:00 GMT
Welcome Back My Friends... by ELP is one. Tremendous performance of many of their great songs, apparently recorded down the length of a harsh and resonant tube by a clapped out mic. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 30, 2021 19:50:56 GMT
Stretching the musical point slightly
We came out of the church.
The bells started ringing
Lovely - I thought.
Often used in tracks to good effect
As they went on and on and on I thought they were a lot less lovely and so *LOUD*
Good to get away from them
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Post by Slinger on Aug 30, 2021 20:27:53 GMT
Best use of bells in a pop tune EVER.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 31, 2021 12:58:19 GMT
That would have been in my subconscious at least
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