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Post by John on Aug 25, 2021 14:16:15 GMT
Paul raised a interesting question around system upgrades and if some of us can ever settle with a system or are we doomed to keep pushing the system further along I have plenty of thoughts on this and know we have people here with stable systems and some with systems that are in a state of flux I comment more lately but interested in peoples thoughts No polls added this time  |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2021 14:56:36 GMT
I've gone on and on about this, so I'll keep it short.
As you move towards greater transparency (whether it be through higher resolution files/streams or not), you're pushing your system ever harder. This exposes previously unheard weaknesses in components or the signal path that were simply masked in the past. Your once 'perfect' system now starts to reveal harshness or distortions that run counter to all your efforts to gain more from your system.
The solution ends up needing one or more of:
- cleaner power
- good footers or isolation
- RFI/EMI pollution treatment
- good grounding
- cables
- worst case: component(s) swapping
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 25, 2021 15:06:54 GMT
I've enjoyed everything about gains in rez and transparency in my digital system that is relatively young in its evolution - so far there hasn't been any downside.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 25, 2021 15:24:39 GMT
My system sounds better than ever.
Assume it has increased transparency.
It only got there by having all sorts of add on kit listed in Martin's post.
Think the system has always been near balance. Improvements maybe took it close to balance as well as improving the sound well beyond what I ever dreamed
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Post by ajski2fly on Aug 25, 2021 16:01:38 GMT
I've gone on and on about this, so I'll keep it short. As you move towards greater transparency (whether it be through higher resolution files/streams or not), you're pushing your system ever harder. This exposes previously unheard weaknesses in components or the signal path that were simply masked in the past. Your once 'perfect' system now starts to reveal harshness or distortions that run counter to all your efforts to gain more from your system. The solution ends up needing one or more of: - cleaner power - good footers or isolation - RFI/EMI pollution treatment - good grounding - cables - worst case: component(s) swapping So now I have the Krell Power amp my system from a Vinyl playback perspective has become pretty stable, with the exception of the odd cartridge swap every so often. Recently I have been looking at the digital realm in more detail and as some now I have a Sonore microRendu, going to the Audiolab 8300CDQ DAC, I also still have in place a RPI/HiFiBerryHAT running Volumio to the same DAC and can also use the MacBook to the DAC. I have come to the following conclusions at present:- The microRendu has been quite a step up in terms of SQ generally, better definition, more bass depth and sounds more musical. Replacing the cheap plug in wall DC PSU with a reasonably priced Linear PSU, albeit one from China (not that it matters I suppose) has resulted in improved soundstage, clarity and detail IMO. I was using a simple inexpensive USB A to B cable, replacing it with a simple USB A to B made a small improvement, replacing that with the UpTone USB A to B made another improvement, slightly more clarity/detail in top end. so referring to Martin's list - cleaner power - done - good footers or isolation - already in place - RFI/EMI pollution treatment - this looks like an expensive next step, are any gains going to be worth it  - good grounding - not so sure about this, looking at others set up even buying grounding boxes from China cost could be around £500 to do the experiment, and yet more clutter  - cables - well I am rather miffed about cables, I have found that an £80 supposedly good quality USB cable caused switching errors to the microRendu and intermittent loss of sound, I am rather hesitant to invest in others only to get similar issues. - worst case: component(s) swapping- at present not too keen or convinced that spending more on say an ultraRendu will give big gains, although I know others say it does. During my changes above I have done comparisons to the older set up(s), and there are definitely big improvements overall, certainly over the RPI/HiFiBerryHAT, it is just more musical and much more listenable, however there is a caveat putting low res digital into it is a waste of time IMO, CD level or above only, I find it highlights low res more than before. |
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2021 16:47:43 GMT
I think my major issue with hearing something I dislike I can't let go off it until I find a solution as it starts to get in the way of my musical enjoyment. The other issue I have is if I hear a obvious improvement I cannot go back I either have to purchase or find a alternative. However most systems are so different to mine I don't experience this need when I listen too most people's systems unless it's my friend Vic as our systems are so similar
With regards to transparency and hearing faults as the system improves I have suffered more than most due to a big industrial estate close to my house.
A few years ago I thought I had it sussed with my Hawthornes moving to scaffold frame and then the Kefs whilst improving the system also revealed noise distortion that took a while to get to sort out.
To be honest I really don't want to make any more system changes for a long time. There is always more but I actually don't enjoy the process of sorting out faults that I am hearing. Yes it pushes the system further but when going through that takes away my enjoyment of music
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2021 17:34:09 GMT
The other issue I have is if I hear a obvious improvement I cannot go back I either have to purchase or find a alternative. That's why my policy is that I won't loan extreme high end gear that I can't afford. If I can't afford it, I won't try it on my system. That keeps things well focussed. |
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2021 17:37:48 GMT
It's a policy I usually have too
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2021 17:41:27 GMT
I get mixed results with cables and I think best to get sale or return
I heard the most with speaker cables and these days look for quality materials then esoteric science like the golden ratio
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2021 17:45:09 GMT
I do think it is harder to get this right with digital
With vinyl speed stability good isolation and decent cart arm and phonostage
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2021 19:20:33 GMT
I totally agree, John. Vinyl replay has its challenges, like arm and cartridge setup.
However, digital is a total can of worms when you go well past vinyl sound capability towards extreme resolution, detail and ambience. It pushes the entire system and highlights deficiencies.
It can be soul destroying at times, but what a fantastic lift when you get it right!
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Post by wannarock2 on Aug 25, 2021 20:02:03 GMT
Excellent subject OP. Needless to say, if one is monitoring this site, they enjoy music. Every one of us has an individualist taste of what ‘sounds good’. Be it a tube sound with higher harmonic distortion or an analytical presentation which may prove too sterile for others. We all have a slightly different perception of sound, (but that won’t stop me from spending more $$ on gear) ツ
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2021 21:10:44 GMT
We all have a slightly different perception of sound Agreed, and that's what makes it so challenging (near-on impossible) to impart what we hear in equipment into meaningful writing. |
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📶NAS > Gustard x26p DAC > Benchmark LA4 Pre-Amp > NAD M22-V2 Amplifier > Revel F228Be Speakers