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Post by BilliumB on Apr 28, 2021 17:43:37 GMT
That makes sense. Any idea what the noise figure is for the Mutec's internal clock?
Have you tried the DG7TBL on the EtherRegen, with the AfterDark on the Mutec? Or can you use the Mutec clock out to feed the ER?
Do AfterDark do a clock with 2 'isolated' clock outputs?
I've not tried my Mutec (or ER) yet, but am I right in thinking that the ER clock input is on the output side of the ER - so the clock couldn’t share a power supply with the ER (as it would bridge the 'moat')?
Cheers. Bill
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Post by MartinT on Apr 28, 2021 18:55:01 GMT
No, I don't have any internal clock measurements for the Mutec. It doesn't have a clock out, either.
I haven't tried double clocking as I don't have a spare 12V LPSU to hand. I could revert to using the supplied SMPS but I tend to scream inside if I plug one in anywhere close to my system. When I next lay my hands on a half decent 12V LPSU I'll give it a try. I already have an embryo of an idea to order another AfterDark in the future!
AfterDark only do singles and a triple. The latter comes with a built-in PSU which put me off it. I don't have a spare outlet in my P3 regenerator, either.
Yes, the ER sounds better with its moat intact, which is why I think I'm getting such a terrific sound as I was breaking the moat in the past. Internal clock, maybe, but the moat is preventing a lot of noise from getting through.
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Post by BilliumB on Apr 28, 2021 21:10:24 GMT
Were you breaking the moat by sharing a power supply between the ER and something downstream?
If your plans involve moving up the AfterDark chain, I could be interested in the one you’ve currently got!
Cheers Bill
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Post by MartinT on Apr 28, 2021 21:34:25 GMT
I was kinda half breaking the moat by sharing a power supply with the clock (although independent outputs) and the clock cables (although two components downstream).
No, I have no further plans at the moment. The step up has been huge and I'm just enjoying the ride!
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Post by MartinT on May 10, 2021 19:05:29 GMT
I have now received my AfterDark Emperor Triple Crown and have been listening to it, in direct comparison with the King before I setup for two clocks.
King
Phase noise 1Hz: -108dB
Phase noise 10Hz: -138dB
Allan deviation: 8.87 x 10-13 @ 1s
Emperor Triple Crown
Phase noise 1Hz: -118dB
Phase noise 10Hz: -143dB
Allan deviation: 3.10 x 10-13 @ 1s
Very first impressions in an unfair comparison between the thoroughly warmed up and reasonably burned in King and the barely warmed after one hour of being plugged in Emperor Triple Crown, which needed to be unplugged and reconnected into the system.
No downside. I had an immediate impression of more realism in cymbal strikes, greater note decay and a darker background. Percussive detail is pervasive in everything and the midrange is smoother and less gritty. I'll continue with the listening but my impression, again, is that a better clock (all other things being equal) makes itself known pretty quickly.
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Post by MartinT on May 10, 2021 19:24:31 GMT
More impressions... Bass is felt rather than heard. Less like hearing a pub band with over-driven bass punching you in the chest, more like an Underground train emerging from the tunnel, shaking you in the gut. John knows what I mean, comparing a straight punch with an undercut. Transients are no longer aural assaults consisting only of loudness. Now they have distance, shape and texture. They can still be loud but the closer approach to real sound makes them more tolerable, and that's also accounting for my lower volume setting of -18dB. I rarely whack it up to -16dB these days. Even my harshness tests of Sharon van Etten and Feist pass more comfortably, the music flowing with great impact but not giving me a headache. As for Hawkwind's Space Ritual - what a revelation! I am convinced that good clocks benefit live music more than any other recordings. |
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Post by John on May 10, 2021 19:30:53 GMT
More impressions... Bass is felt rather than heard. Less like hearing a pub band with over-driven bass punching you in the chest, more like an Underground train emerging from the tunnel, shaking you in the gut. John knows what I mean, comparing a straight punch with an undercut.  Good to know it is a improvement It will be interesting when you are using both clocks |
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Post by MikeMusic on May 10, 2021 19:38:04 GMT
and more to come .....
Got to be good
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Post by BilliumB on May 12, 2021 21:14:27 GMT
Have you got any early results on using the 2 clocks Martin?
Cheers. Bill
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Post by MartinT on May 12, 2021 21:28:06 GMT
Hi Bill - not yet. I'm waiting for some parts for my linear PSU to arrive as it blew two rectifiers, so I'm taking the chance to upgrade it with Schottky rectifiers and a lower noise Texas LM-317T regulator. Then I'll get it fixed, dialled in to 12V and will setup the second clock.
It's been fascinating listening to the higher grade AfterDark clock with the EtherREGEN just running its own internal clock. Despite that, the system is still playing at its best performance yet. I'm being patient and enjoying each uplift on its own merits.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 28, 2022 10:24:38 GMT
Very interesting comparision between three different clocks running into an EtherREGEN. This site is in German but perfectly readable if you turn your browser translation on. www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.php?p=207430#p207430The scoring clearly gives the AfterDark Giesemann Emperor top score in sound quality. Despite Uptone optimistically stating that the internal ER clock is a good one, those of us who have compared know better. This scorings confirm that. |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Apr 29, 2022 7:04:33 GMT
I have to 2nd MartinT comments, l run an AD clock on my Gustard U18, and difference is noticeable, it can also be a case of being careful of what you wish for,as it really can show up poor production, and l believe you end up listening deeper into recordings than many producers where able to hear at the final mix
Damien
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Post by MartinT on Apr 29, 2022 8:08:32 GMT
l believe you end up listening deeper into recordings than many producers where able to hear at the final mix I'm sure you're right and I often marvel at what is on a recording from, say, the 1970s when the studio replay equipment most likely didn't reveal all that went down onto the tape. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 29, 2022 8:48:18 GMT
I am looking for the clues as to why one album is revealed to be so wonderful with most ordinary
Rare to see a pattern
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Post by MartinT on Apr 29, 2022 9:49:39 GMT
I am looking for the clues as to why one album is revealed to be so wonderful with most ordinary Microphones and microphone placement Acoustic of the recording space and extraneous noise Quality of studio mixer Amount of processing such as compression, autotune etc. 'radio friendly' levels leading to compression and soft clipping Engineer expertise Attention to detail |
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 29, 2022 15:11:17 GMT
I am looking for the clues as to why one album is revealed to be so wonderful with most ordinary Microphones and microphone placement Acoustic of the recording space and extraneous noise Quality of studio mixer Amount of processing such as compression, autotune etc. 'radio friendly' levels leading to compression and soft clipping Engineer expertise Attention to detail Agreed Some artists have an amount of their albums that are truly excellent, through good to adequate. Seems like the good engineers are hidden Attention to detail is so rare  |
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Post by wannarock2 on Apr 29, 2022 15:56:30 GMT
Yeah, it’s amusing. I will start a listening session with a new to me recording that is sometimes either recorded too hot, too thin or too loud and think ‘oh, it’s one of ‘those’, too bad. Does make one appreciate a good overall recording process.
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Post by MartinT on May 14, 2023 18:01:30 GMT
With the Leo Bodnar clock getting all the attention, I just need to remind folk that the AfterDarks, especially my Emperor Triple Crown, are superb clocks, ultra quiet with a good power supply. The ones I have output a sinewave but there are squarewave clocks, too. Waveform choice is personal and system dependent so I won't get into it here. They need no maintenance, just set them up and forget about them.
Do
Power it with a supercap PSU
Give it a good DC cable
Use good footers, not the semi-spheres included
Add a heavy weight on top
Use an excellent well shielded clock cable
Don't
Switch it off
Disturb it while listening
Add a grounding box (but do ground the component it feeds)
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2023 10:31:15 GMT
Forthcoming project: adding a 20mm tungsten cube to the top of the OCXO module and improving the internal damping and heat insulation. I have everything but the cube, which is now in this country. This will be done to my Emperor Triple Crown, the 2nd and more important clock in my system. If successful, I'll repeat it for my King, the 1st clock.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 20, 2023 13:32:49 GMT
Forthcoming project: adding a 20mm tungsten cube to the top of the OCXO module and improving the internal damping and heat insulation. I have everything but the cube, which is now in this country. This will be done to my Emperor Triple Crown, the 2nd and more important clock in my system. If successful, I'll repeat it for my King, the 1st clock. Looking forward to the outcome Martin |
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📶NAS > Gustard x26p DAC > Benchmark LA4 Pre-Amp > NAD M22-V2 Amplifier > Revel F228Be Speakers