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Omni's
Feb 11, 2021 19:04:54 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 11, 2021 19:04:54 GMT
Do you like them ? Which ones do a good job and why ? Which ones were uninspiring and why ?
Why do I ask ? Just curious if there is an implementation that is superior (without costing the earth).
Thanks.
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Omni's
Feb 11, 2021 19:09:16 GMT
Post by ChrisB on Feb 11, 2021 19:09:16 GMT
Good question! Do you mean full blown omni-directional designs only, or are you including the pseudo-omni types too?
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 11, 2021 19:13:00 GMT
My MBL 116F are omni down to 620hz, sidefiring cones below that. They work wonderfully well imo. But they do cost the earth.
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Post by karatestu on Feb 11, 2021 19:19:17 GMT
Good question! Do you mean full blown omni-directional designs only, or are you including the pseudo-omni types too? Pseudo-omni included.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 11, 2021 19:55:19 GMT
The best speakers I have ever heard in my life used electrostatic line-source panels fired through an acoustic lens. They radiated in a 180 degree pattern and were intended to be placed with the cabinets arranged to face each other (not the listening position), with their backs up against adjacent walls. So, one on the front wall and the other on a side wall. I can't begin to express how good they sounded. They were the Beveridge speakers and produced what was known as the 'Beveridge Cylindrical Sound System'. I wrote a little about them here. TAS thread number 72, so it's going back to the forum's early days! There's an interesting piece about the technical details here on the Beveridge Audio website. I was never able to house or afford a pair of those and the nearest thing I came to it is the speakers I currently use - Mirage M-3si, which are described as a bi-polar design: back and front facing duplicate drivers wired in-phase with each other. Interestingly, the Beveridge site I linked to above mentions a design where two drivers are aligned face to face and wired out of phase, which is exactly what John does with his scaffold beasts. This approximates the pulsating spheres in Jerry's speakers.
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Omni's
Feb 11, 2021 20:21:16 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 11, 2021 20:21:16 GMT
Wow, sounds amazing. Will have to investigate those. Thanks.
Makes my bipolar with up and down firing mid bass look very inferior.
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Omni's
Feb 11, 2021 20:27:38 GMT
Post by MartinT on Feb 11, 2021 20:27:38 GMT
I've heard the big MBLs (not Jerry's model) sound awesome, so I'm not averse to the technology. Smaller older speakers like the Sonabs didn't leave much impression.
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Omni's
Feb 11, 2021 20:47:31 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 11, 2021 20:47:31 GMT
Sounds like the meta expensive models are the only ones worth having. Oh well, I will just have to slum it with my drivers costing £15 each and boxes made out of cardboard.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 11, 2021 20:54:16 GMT
I saw a chap on Facebook found two very solid side tables with chunky corner legs and was going to convert them into speakers by panelling them. I immediately thought of you and converting them with a top omni driver and opposing (or even four) bass drivers.
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Post by petea on Feb 11, 2021 20:59:14 GMT
I was really impressed by Shahinian Arc speakers when I heard them at Phonography some years back. They are described as poly-directional by the company and work well even in rooms of challenging shapes etc (they make other multi direction speakers also). I tried a pair in the cottage in the UK, but although they produced a superb soundstage they did not get on with the Inglenook and the bass boomed somewhat as a result. A few years later I bought a pair for the studio here in Babelsberg and they work very well indeed (I actually bought a second pair of ex demonstration units as spares... Don't ask. It seemed a good idea at the time). Having said that, I do not use them as the main speakers mainly because, due their size and shape, they need to stand more in the room than the Royd Apex speakers do. www.shahinianacoustics.com
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 11, 2021 21:00:13 GMT
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Omni's
Feb 12, 2021 7:49:02 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 12, 2021 7:49:02 GMT
I saw a chap on Facebook found two very solid side tables with chunky corner legs and was going to convert them into speakers by panelling them. I immediately thought of you and converting them with a top omni driver and opposing (or even four) bass drivers. That would be me but I don't go on Facebook
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Omni's
Feb 12, 2021 8:00:32 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 12, 2021 8:00:32 GMT
I think a diy MBL is way beyond me unfortunately as is being able to afford and house a real pair.
With four tweeters all at 90 degrees to each other I suppose I gave what is known as poly directional. I thought about trying the Shahinian approach of firing several tweeters at angles towards the ceiling. Maybe I will give that a go. The only other thing that I could do is use a diffuser(s) like Duevel. Anybody heard them ?
With my speakers being in a small room they have to be close to walls so I only require 180 degree radiation. Most omni and pseudo omni need to have space behind them. I'm not too bothered about imaging and soundstage, I am willing to sacrifice it for other aspects I find more important but if I can have it all then all the better.
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Omni's
Feb 12, 2021 8:10:32 GMT
Post by John on Feb 12, 2021 8:10:32 GMT
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Omni's
Feb 12, 2021 8:16:44 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 12, 2021 8:16:44 GMT
I was never able to house or afford a pair of those and the nearest thing I came to it is the speakers I currently use - Mirage M-3si, which are described as a bi-polar design: back and front facing duplicate drivers wired in-phase with each other. Interestingly, the Beveridge site I linked to above mentions a design where two drivers are aligned face to face and wired out of phase, which is exactly what John does with his scaffold beasts. This approximates the pulsating spheres in Jerry's speakers. I already have bipolar mid bass with up and down firing 6.5 inchers doped and run full range and in phase (electrically). I am particularly interested about the two drivers face to face and wired out of phase. How does this work ? Where can I find out about the concept ? I take it there is a gap between them otherwise it is just a compound isobaric driver. Many thanks, Stu
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Post by John on Feb 12, 2021 8:23:16 GMT
Vic from Transfi uses this arrangement for the bass. www.trans-fi.com/my-systemThe best bass I heard. You need a lot of power to make it work The bass is only be fired out in a narrow field so not Ommi but this really works for controlling the bass
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Omni's
Feb 12, 2021 9:14:47 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 12, 2021 9:14:47 GMT
Vic from Transfi uses this arrangement for the bass. www.trans-fi.com/my-systemThe best bass I heard. You need a lot of power to make it work The bass is only be fired out in a narrow field so not Ommi but this really works for controlling the bass Thanks John for taking the time to explain this. I take it that this arrangement only works in the bass region ? If I were to do that with mid bass drivers that are run fully open it would probably be a disaster. My high pass filter corner frequency for the tweeters is at 9.5 khz. And I don't have loads of power but listen in a small room at low volumes.
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Post by John on Feb 12, 2021 13:45:33 GMT
I think the idea is to have bass drivers with a high max so they need lots of power to drive but according to Vic give the best performance. For mid bass I know Vic would just encourage you to find out and see if it works out. This has often been the way he has learnt, a case of trail and error and then refinement.
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Omni's
Feb 12, 2021 20:46:17 GMT
Post by karatestu on Feb 12, 2021 20:46:17 GMT
I might give it a go sometime soon. I don't hold out much hope with frequencies up to 9khz are involved. Nothing tried nothing gained though.
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