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Post by MartinT on Sept 11, 2020 19:35:30 GMT
Second night's listening with just the optimal plug-ins. It most definitely is not worse. I want to say that there is slightly more clarity coming through in busy mixes, it sounds just a touch cleaner.
I need another couple of evenings to be sure.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Sept 11, 2020 19:47:09 GMT
I think its a better idea to loan you a proper noise sniffer instead of that cheap chinese shite you seem to favour LOL
That way a 2nd machine will either confirm what you are typing or show its a load of bollox
Just because a plug in filter adds noise doesn't mean it makes the system sound worse
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Post by MartinT on Sept 11, 2020 19:52:25 GMT
I'm happy to try a better noise sniffer, of course.
The 'cheap Chinese shite' has taught me things. I may not have the full picture but I've learned more than I knew a couple of days ago. That, to me, is a successful experiment.
I certainly never stated that any of the plug-in filters make the sound worse.
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Post by Pinch on Sept 11, 2020 20:08:54 GMT
Just because a plug in filter adds noise doesn't mean it makes the system sound worse True. It would though, in many cases, mean that they were doing the opposite of what they were purported to do. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 11, 2020 22:21:34 GMT
LOL - you couldn't make it up.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 12, 2020 8:49:22 GMT
From what I saw of the kit that Tony brought around there is a huge amount going on in the mains and we're scratching the surface
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Post by MartinT on Sept 12, 2020 10:05:41 GMT
Yes, better measurement devices would help.
However, the fact remains that my 'cheap shite' meter does measure noise. I can turn on light dimmers and TVs and see the effect very clearly. These are known causes of mains noise. There is quite a lot of correlation going on here. I can also see readings from plug-in filters that increase noise and those that decrease noise. Explain to me why that should be?
I also converted the mV reading differentials into dB as it shows more clearly that even the best filters are not reducing the noise by much.
I am very happy to be challenged, honestly this is fairly amateur-hour testing. If there is a way for me to use better test equipment, I will. One thing remains, though. This is real-world testing in a typical household, not lab derived claims.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 12, 2020 12:59:21 GMT
The comparison with a more expensive, but not necessarily better device will be useful Tony's bit of kit, if I remember right was up to £100k So must be good !  A bit more than a sniffer |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 12, 2020 13:09:06 GMT
Tony's kit is space age. I wonder if Brooky was serious about a loan? How about it The Brookmeister ? |
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 12, 2020 13:16:46 GMT
Friday night is drinks night He's sleeping it off now |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 12, 2020 16:49:09 GMT
Another interesting observation is how the noise level changes, all things unchanged, according to time of day and possibly weekday/weekend. Right now the noise level is 20mV (very low), last night it was around 40mV.
When I ran the 5s Cleanwave process on both regenerators, the noise went up to 72mV then settled back to 40mV, so it senses the effect of the noisy demagnetising waveform sent back into the mains circuit.
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Post by ajski2fly on Sept 12, 2020 17:12:41 GMT
Martin, an excellent and very interesting post. We are should be moving to a bungalow in Oct/Nov and I am going to put in a dedicated mains for the hifi and silver plated plugs and sockets(that is on the pins). I currently us 2 Tacima extension blocks with filters and I think that I will be loosing these after the move and setting up the hifi again. I will watch this thread with interest.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 12, 2020 21:13:09 GMT
A dedicated 60A radial circuit was one of the best things I did when moving in - getting it done before setting up the system was ideal. I had a Coherent silver unswitched double socket installed and that feeds both my regenerators. Otherwise, I'd have had half a dozen double sockets installed. Don't use distribution strips, ever!
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Post by Clive on Sept 13, 2020 7:26:25 GMT
How about taking measurements after any IEC mains filters inside your kit Martin? It would be interesting to know if such filters help much.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 13, 2020 8:22:42 GMT
That would require me to open up my kit, Clive. I'm not averse to it but it's not my main objective.
I'm really trying to correlate cause-and-effect here. Some things have surprised me, but I can sure hear the effect of very quiet mains. It doesn't just manifest as a low noise floor, it allows more soundstage depth and room ambience to come through. Things like note decay are enhanced, too. It's all about low-level detail.
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Post by Clive on Sept 13, 2020 9:17:47 GMT
I don’t suppose you have an IEC mains filter in your parts box? It would be handy to know whether these do much good.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 13, 2020 10:02:46 GMT
You would have to put it under load as running open it would hardly filter anything.
No, I don't have one. I never did like in-line filters.
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Post by BilliumB on Sept 13, 2020 14:52:10 GMT
Might not the big issue be what’s actually going on on the Earth/Ground line, especially if this is connected to the 0v line in your kit (assuming it’s not double insulated).
Maybe a sensitive oscilloscope is what you need to invest in - but what do you then use as the 0v reference to measure noise on the ground (0v) line against.
Cheers. Bill
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Post by MartinT on Sept 13, 2020 16:00:37 GMT
Might not the big issue be what’s actually going on on the Earth/Ground line, especially if this is connected to the 0v line in your kit (assuming it’s not double insulated). Yes, that's the big issue, especially with some of the delta plug-in filters (using earth). My system is earthed in the normal way with the house earth, with neutral tied to it nearby. The sparky reported the earth as normal with 0.24 ohm impedance. Remember, this is primarily for safety. Signal grounding is dealt with by a grounding box on every digital component from the router all the way to the DAC. They are a significant contributor to the low noise floor. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 13, 2020 16:37:09 GMT
Martin, I'd be interested in your subjective listening thoughts with the filter plugs in and out of the system if you haven't tried that already after your testing.
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