|
|
Post by f456gt on Sept 8, 2020 16:11:23 GMT
Chaps,
The Ongaku must be a superb amplifier but what makes it so expensive, how do you justify spending £70K for a power amplifier? The valve is a natural amplification device, the transistor must be manipulated. An untutored valve-circuit designer is therefore more likely to get good results than an equally untutored transistor-circuit designer. There is no R&D involved, no revolutionary breakthrough, it is a simple valve circuit design.
Even using the best materials money can buy how does a manufacturer justifies charging £70K for an amplifier or a pair of them?
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Sept 8, 2020 16:30:17 GMT
I think with amps like that it's a bit like spending similar money on a Swiss watch encrusted with diamonds or the like - you're not necessarily getting better performance but you are buying into exclusivity and the brand. You can bask in the smug realisation that very few others will have similar if you feel the need.
Personally I wouldn't buy any of their amps as I've always felt they have a 'house sound'. I prefer what sounds neutral to my ears at least.
|
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Sept 8, 2020 18:13:54 GMT
In my experience, by and large, the more Audio Note gear costs the more colourations it has.
I'm not a fan of the brand. I've been to many AN demonstrations at hifi shows and while usually pleasant they are seldom that great. I've heard several home setups and they are often embarrassingly poor, often being shown the door by far less expensive equipment that other people have brought along.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 8, 2020 18:25:24 GMT
I once heard Andrew Randall AN system, he built some of it himself Nice system but not the crazy high end stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by julesd68 on Sept 8, 2020 19:15:15 GMT
In my experience, by and large, the more Audio Note gear costs the more colourations it has. I used to have their entry level M-Zero preamp which I actually liked in my vinyl set-up years ago. I could detect the house signature even from that but it seemed to work well with the gear I had. Not at all what I'm looking for now though! |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Sept 8, 2020 19:21:13 GMT
The valve is a natural amplification device, the transistor must be manipulated. I don't really agree that one is more 'natural' than the other. Both must be biased into their operating range, the valve being a voltage amplifier while the transistor is a current amplifier. Valves need high voltages in their power supplies, transistors high current. Each have quirks that need to be overcome to make them work well. As to which you prefer, it's entirely down to personal preference. I haven't heard an Ongaku but I have listened to the Kagu-On (sp?) and quite a lot of the Audio Note range. They do some things well but are not for me. |
|
|
|
Post by user211 on Sept 10, 2020 12:01:41 GMT
I have heard the AN Japan and UK 211 based amps in various guises at shows and one in someone's home.
To be fair the do sound good, but then so do my 211 monos for way less money and far higher power output than any of the AN models including Kagura which I have heard multiple times.
What I think is very critical is the type of 211 valve installed.
I did a compare with some other people at Malvern Audio Research. Unanimous decision was Amperex were the best over KR, GE, RCA alternatives and the difference is not subtle. Amperex were clearly the best by a good measure and this was agreed by 4 people. And my conclusion in my own amps. Some other NOS 211s may be better still but will cost mega bucks.
So it pains me when I see Shuguang 211s in AN Japan and UK amps costing an arm and a leg at shows. Actually though the Shuguangs are amazing for the money but that's not the point.
Last Munich AN UK were at least using GEs, which are good.
|
|
|
|
Post by user211 on Sept 11, 2020 8:12:34 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Sept 11, 2020 12:28:11 GMT
Hifi is full of BS like that. Get a decent amp like that built for 1\3rd of the price.
It's just names and can be a display of wealth for a lot of people.
Just glad we're not all the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Brookmeister on Sept 11, 2020 19:48:37 GMT
Is this for real?
"The Ongaku must be a superb amplifier but what makes it so expensive"
Why must it be superb?
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Sept 12, 2020 9:42:18 GMT
Manufacturers price whatever they want.
You can fool some of the people some of the time and thus stay in business.
The key is to hear it
A £1000 system should sound better than a £500 system, but check them both out
The higher the price the more cobblers there is mixed in the marketing.
Check it out to hear if the extra dough is worth shelling out for.
My SMSL Q5 is a stunning amp for under £100
The £250,000 system I heard a couple of years back was underwhelming at the dealers and amazing when I played the same tracks at home
Some way short of my (then) Rega Isis, Belles Pre and Monoblocks ad TAD E1s
List price, which I didn't pay anywhere near, of around £40k
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Sept 12, 2020 11:33:40 GMT
I think many high-end systems I've heard are capable of better performance but have just been thrown together without any consideration for power, grounding or room treatments.
That aside, amps like the Ongaku need careful and sympathetic matching.
Some systems are a match made in hell, though. Naim and Focal come to mind. Chord and Wilson Benesch are another.
|
|
|
|
Post by Slinger on Sept 12, 2020 11:47:51 GMT
Is this for real? "The Ongaku must be a superb amplifier but what makes it so expensive" Why must it be superb? I thought that was your mantra: "The more expensive something is, the better it is, 'cos I've got one," or is that only when you're wearing your shopkeepers coat?    |
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Sept 12, 2020 11:59:26 GMT
Nicely made no doubt but it's name name name.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Sept 13, 2020 13:54:21 GMT
PQ is a very good salesman,give him his due
|
|
