Post by speedysteve on Aug 9, 2020 8:09:16 GMT
Need some collective wisdom.
Background:
Being a considerate kinda guy, I've always done my serious listening with the room door shut.
I've always measured the room with it shut and set it up (some DSP on the bass), with the door shut!
The wall with a door is behind the listening seat by some 2m perhaps a bit more. The sofa is probably a bit further away from the speakers than in the diagram. Room is circa 7m long.
Anyway, I always had more of a problem in this room than in the previous room that had a wall fairly close behind the listening position.
In the old room I applied some DSP correction cut to the bass to tame around 25Hz and got rewarded by that lower octave, impressive room interaction that the tapped horns can do so well.
Tracks like Joan as Police women - Flash, Drottningholm Baroque ensemble - Fours seasons - Winter, Boz Scaggs - Miss Riddle, Lorde - Tennis court etc all had that extra deep bass that not many speakers even bother to try.
In the new place, the problem was the deepest bass of these tracks. There's a fairly significant suck out just where I want to put the sofa! Moving forwards or backwards 0.5m or even 1m doesn't really help either.
So, those deep tones are reduced or just not there!
Solution was to get a much more powerful amp and pour some dB into that area. Result was more acceptable but not fully where I was before or where I wanted it. The drivers are 650w Pro and can no doubt take inordinate stick! The amp 600wpc!
High damping factor.
(I'm convinced commercial speaker sellers know that room modes would cause buyers more problems than they could deal with, so they roll off steeply into that territory. Ditto records for record players. 20Hz on vinyl - not possible, needle out of groove, so give em fat 50Hz, roll off below 35Hz, and be happy)
I guess that like every force, having and equal and opposite force, pouring more in, just resulted in more push back from the room!
I lived with it. It was acceptable.
Everything but the deep bass is good. Both measurement wise and to my ears sound wise.
Now to the point:
We're having some work done on the room and the door is off.
I sorted the room out for a listen over the weekend - All of a sudden gobs of bass. Deep bass, too much bass! That last lowest octave was back in spades.
I got the measuring mic out, positioned where my ear would be.
Huge peak at 23-27Hz. I mean huge!
With the door on the hinges and shut (as before) it was not there at all. The opposite - suck out.
So I removed all the correction I'd previously applied on the tapped horn channel 20-90Hz.
Measured again. Flat down to 27Hz (really nice in fact) and now a fairly large peak at 27Hz! What is going on!
I applied a 14dB cut in that area. Still a small peak but similar to my old room in Bisley.
Quick listen. Nice bass progression walking the scale down on bass guitar is still there.
That lowest octave is there on all the tracks I mentioned above, sound great! Win win!
Overall bass sound is cleaner and faster. The sound waves are not fighting each other I guess!
Yes Martin that Swedish track by Veronica Maggio is even more satisfying.
A quick google shows door open / door shut experiences of others.
I do struggle a but to see how a 2m x 0.85m hole in the wall that the end makes that much difference.
The rest of the end wall is still there of course. It is a loft room, with a sloping ceiling, so the door makes up the lions share of the area.
I have two setups in Najda DSP now. One as was - door shut, and one - door open (off hinges).
Going forward I want to treat the reflection of the door / end wall, So I can still shut it but simulate the effect of opening it.
As it's my den / listening room, thick absorption material can be applied to the door and end wall.
The door is super heavy solid hardwood with 3 heavy duty hinges.
The end wall will be a deep shelving unit on the left side and still have desk / computer table on the right side.
What sort of material should I be looking at? Can I test with loads of layered blankets, mattress etc in that position to test viability before lashing out on pro treatment stuff?
What's your experience / advice?
Background:
Being a considerate kinda guy, I've always done my serious listening with the room door shut.
I've always measured the room with it shut and set it up (some DSP on the bass), with the door shut!
The wall with a door is behind the listening seat by some 2m perhaps a bit more. The sofa is probably a bit further away from the speakers than in the diagram. Room is circa 7m long.
Anyway, I always had more of a problem in this room than in the previous room that had a wall fairly close behind the listening position.
In the old room I applied some DSP correction cut to the bass to tame around 25Hz and got rewarded by that lower octave, impressive room interaction that the tapped horns can do so well.
Tracks like Joan as Police women - Flash, Drottningholm Baroque ensemble - Fours seasons - Winter, Boz Scaggs - Miss Riddle, Lorde - Tennis court etc all had that extra deep bass that not many speakers even bother to try.
In the new place, the problem was the deepest bass of these tracks. There's a fairly significant suck out just where I want to put the sofa! Moving forwards or backwards 0.5m or even 1m doesn't really help either.
So, those deep tones are reduced or just not there!
Solution was to get a much more powerful amp and pour some dB into that area. Result was more acceptable but not fully where I was before or where I wanted it. The drivers are 650w Pro and can no doubt take inordinate stick! The amp 600wpc!
High damping factor.
(I'm convinced commercial speaker sellers know that room modes would cause buyers more problems than they could deal with, so they roll off steeply into that territory. Ditto records for record players. 20Hz on vinyl - not possible, needle out of groove, so give em fat 50Hz, roll off below 35Hz, and be happy)
I guess that like every force, having and equal and opposite force, pouring more in, just resulted in more push back from the room!
I lived with it. It was acceptable.
Everything but the deep bass is good. Both measurement wise and to my ears sound wise.
Now to the point:
We're having some work done on the room and the door is off.
I sorted the room out for a listen over the weekend - All of a sudden gobs of bass. Deep bass, too much bass! That last lowest octave was back in spades.
I got the measuring mic out, positioned where my ear would be.
Huge peak at 23-27Hz. I mean huge!
With the door on the hinges and shut (as before) it was not there at all. The opposite - suck out.
So I removed all the correction I'd previously applied on the tapped horn channel 20-90Hz.
Measured again. Flat down to 27Hz (really nice in fact) and now a fairly large peak at 27Hz! What is going on!
I applied a 14dB cut in that area. Still a small peak but similar to my old room in Bisley.
Quick listen. Nice bass progression walking the scale down on bass guitar is still there.
That lowest octave is there on all the tracks I mentioned above, sound great! Win win!
Overall bass sound is cleaner and faster. The sound waves are not fighting each other I guess!
Yes Martin that Swedish track by Veronica Maggio is even more satisfying.
A quick google shows door open / door shut experiences of others.
I do struggle a but to see how a 2m x 0.85m hole in the wall that the end makes that much difference.
The rest of the end wall is still there of course. It is a loft room, with a sloping ceiling, so the door makes up the lions share of the area.
I have two setups in Najda DSP now. One as was - door shut, and one - door open (off hinges).
Going forward I want to treat the reflection of the door / end wall, So I can still shut it but simulate the effect of opening it.
As it's my den / listening room, thick absorption material can be applied to the door and end wall.
The door is super heavy solid hardwood with 3 heavy duty hinges.
The end wall will be a deep shelving unit on the left side and still have desk / computer table on the right side.
What sort of material should I be looking at? Can I test with loads of layered blankets, mattress etc in that position to test viability before lashing out on pro treatment stuff?
What's your experience / advice?
